Apostates of Islam


#1

I read a thread on whyislam.org about apostates of Islam. In the end I was still confused as two faatwaa were issued on the subject from the same website (links included).

My question to Muslim’s is simply…

Are apostates of Islam to be killed as a last resort if they do not return to Islam?

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547222

islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=117869


#2

[quote=iamrefreshed]I read a thread on whyislam.org about apostates of Islam. In the end I was still confused as two faatwaa were issued on the subject from the same website (links included).

My question to Muslim’s is simply…

Are apostates of Islam to be killed as a last resort if they do not return to Islam?

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547222

islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=117869
[/quote]

Am I to die?

There is a precedent in the sunnah for such action, however I dont think that it is in the Quran.

I believe the recommended thing is to lock the apostate up, and torture him into capitulation, if he does not, then keep him locked up so he can do no more harm.


#3

[quote=hawk]Am I to die?

There is a precedent in the sunnah for such action, however I dont think that it is in the Quran.

I believe the recommended thing is to lock the apostate up, and torture him into capitulation, if he does not, then keep him locked up so he can do no more harm.
[/quote]

So, there is no free will in Islam? How can one believe in something that would force belief on someone? I mean, this is so 180 to Christianity that it’s mind boggling. In Christianity, God’s love is a choice, in Islam, 'God’s ‘love’, is by the sword… There can only be one who would force something on someone, and that’s not God… The true God gives humans free will to make their own choices, to accept Him or not.


#4

[quote=Semper Fi]So, there is no free will in Islam? How can one believe in something that would force belief on someone? I mean, this is so 180 to Christianity that it’s mind boggling. In Christianity, God’s love is a choice, in Islam, 'God’s ‘love’, is by the sword… There can only be one who would force something on someone, and that’s not God…
[/quote]

Oh no i dont mean to torture the person, but here is the thing, the idea is to re-explain islam to him, and if he understands it, and makes shahada then good, but islam teaches there is** “no compulsion in religion”**

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.


#5

On the other hand there is huge compulsion, because non muslims must feel themselves subdued at the hands of the muslims.
Thus the compulsion is more subtle.


#6

[quote=hawk]Oh no i dont mean to torture the person, but here is the thing, the idea is to re-explain islam to him, and if he understands it, and makes shahada then good, but islam teaches there is** “no compulsion in religion”**

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.
[/quote]

Can you please explain shahada?

I have also been told that the islamonline.net is a good site to use to understand Islam. I don’t understand the differing faatwaa given on the site.:confused:

Is Apostacy then that comes down to a personal interpretation?

For me this is very important on how I view Islam in general. I realize that my view is not relative to Muslim’s but I would really appreciate it if someone could answer this with authority.

If it is a matter of personal interpretation then I would have a very difficult time with that answer.


#7

Is this a taboo subject to speak about with people who are not Muslim?


#8

Where is Emad when you need him to answer a question?

Are any of the Muslim’s on the forum able to tell me which is the correct Fatwa or is this really a taboo subject?

Am I being offensive by asking it?

It was discussed on the whyislam forum but without any real answer.


#9

[quote=iamrefreshed]Where is Emad when you need him to answer a question?

Are any of the Muslim’s on the forum able to tell me which is the correct Fatwa or is this really a taboo subject?

Am I being offensive by asking it?

It was discussed on the whyislam forum but without any real answer.
[/quote]

I dont think anyone on this forum can give you a fatwa…we are not qualified to do so.

whyislam is not a fatwa site as they have stated countless times.


#10

[quote=Faith101]I dont think anyone on this forum can give you a fatwa…we are not qualified to do so.

whyislam is not a fatwa site as they have stated countless times.
[/quote]

I am not asking for a fatwa Faith. I know you cannot give them. If you read through my posts you will see that the fatwa was from islamonline.net NOT whyislam.org

The people on whyislam said that islamonline.net is a valid site for faatwaa.

What is your understanding for punishment/non-punishment of Apostasy?


#11

[quote=iamrefreshed]I am not asking for a fatwa Faith. I know you cannot give them. If you read through my posts you will see that the fatwa was from islamonline.net NOT whyislam.org

The people on whyislam said that islamonline.net is a valid site for faatwaa.

What is your understanding for punishment/non-punishment of Apostasy?
[/quote]

Death.

I didnt know there was a difference of opinion on this. I do believe that it is not my or any other individual muslim’s personal duty to punish this human being…the punishment (like the punishment for all crimes) has to be done under a court of law.


#12

[quote=Faith101]Death.

I didnt know there was a difference of opinion on this. I do believe that it is not my or any other individual muslim’s personal duty to punish this human being…the punishment (like the punishment for all crimes) has to be done under a court of law.
[/quote]

From what I understand this is a very contested point in Islam. I’m not sure how Muslim’s view this source but here it is for what it’s worth.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Penalties_for_Apostasy

I don’t understand what you mean about personal duty Faith. Not your personal duty to inflict the punishment? Not to judge the innocence or guilt?

What type of court? I assume it would have to be under a true Islamic government (of which there are none today).


#13

Faith. May I also ask if your belief comes from Qur’an or Hadith.

My Qur’an’s index only mentions apostasy once 47:25 and that does not prescribe an earthly punishment.


#14

[quote=iamrefreshed]Faith. May I also ask if your belief comes from Qur’an or Hadith.

My Qur’an’s index only mentions apostasy once 47:25 and that does not prescribe an earthly punishment.
[/quote]

Our entire religion comes from Quran and Sunnah (with consists of the hadith).

i went on islamonline.net and looked more into what they had to say. i got this from them:

All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death.

They also go to mention the hadith that support the punishment being death.

In any case, Allah knows best.

To answer your question, i’ll ask you another. If you saw a known murderer in the street, would you take it upon yourself to kill him? You’d just turn him in to the authorities…same type of thinking…and Allah knows best.


#15

Its strange to thing that we would be killed if we lived in one of those islamic countries.

I am a good person, I used to understand islam, now I dont, because I have seen the Truth of Christianity, so I am to be killed.


#16

[quote=Faith101]Our entire religion comes from Quran and Sunnah (with consists of the hadith).

i went on islamonline.net and looked more into what they had to say. i got this from them:

All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death.

They also go to mention the hadith that support the punishment being death.

In any case, Allah knows best.

To answer your question, i’ll ask you another. If you saw a known murderer in the street, would you take it upon yourself to kill him? You’d just turn him in to the authorities…same type of thinking…and Allah knows best.
[/quote]

I’m not sure if I understand your answer Faith. You state that you will answer my question with your own question. I do not see how that works.

I will give you the honor you refuse me of answering your question. If I saw a CONVICTED murderer in the street I would like to think that I would call the authorities or make an attempt to restrain him/her until the authorities arrived.

I also point out that I would do so with NO THOUGHT to my religion. It would be a decision I would make based upon my community.

Will you now answer my question since I gave you the courtesy?


#17

[quote=Faith101]Our entire religion comes from Quran and Sunnah (with consists of the hadith).

i went on islamonline.net and looked more into what they had to say. i got this from them:

All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death.

They also go to mention the hadith that support the punishment being death.

In any case, Allah knows best.

To answer your question, i’ll ask you another. If you saw a known murderer in the street, would you take it upon yourself to kill him? You’d just turn him in to the authorities…same type of thinking…and Allah knows best.
[/quote]

Also Faith, your analogy is extremely poor. How do you equate a murderer with an apostate?

An apostate, at best, murders his/her own soul.

A murderer takes the life of another.

If anything, your example equates that the murderer is the Muslim who takes the life of the apostate.


#18

[quote=iamrefreshed]Also Faith, your analogy is extremely poor. How do you equate a murderer with an apostate?

An apostate, at best, murders his/her own soul.

A murderer takes the life of another.

If anything, your example equates that the murderer is the Muslim who takes the life of the apostate.
[/quote]

I apologize for not being so clear.

I’ll try again

There is no separation b/w religion and state. God dictates all aspects of our lives,from what we eat to how we dress to how we deal with criminals, etc. In a country where Islamic law is the law of the land, people who leave Islam and go out preaching against the teachings of Islam are just creating havoc and chaos in the community. They are to be punished.

With that being said, if a person decides to leave Islam…he can practice whatever faith he chooses…and no one will ever know, and therefoer no punishment will ensue. It is only when he makes his conversion public that problems arise.

The example I gave before was to show you that if i saw an ex-muslim on the street, i could not take it into my own hands to kill him…similarily how you would not take it into your own hands to kill a murderer you see on the street.

You mentioned that you would call the authorities,etc with NO thought to your religion. I find that kind of odd…shouldnt everything we do on this earth be for the sake of God. If it werent, than what is the point?


#19

Yes, and let God pass judgement on those that decide to turn from him, I dont think you, or any shari’a court is in a position to decide if a person has turned from God.


#20

I think this is where I have to part ways with Islam.

I have heard many nice things about Islam on this board and the whyislam.org forum. Granted, I don’t believe they are the true path, but the beliefs seemed peaceful as you and others explained.

I like to think I would be willing to die for my religion. However, I would never ever be able to condone killing someone for leaving it. Even if they did try to preach against it. Sorry.

I would like to thank all those here who have answered my questions.

God be with you.


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