Apostolic Succession


#1

I know that the Holy Father has a tracable geneology (if you will), all the way back to Peter.

But what about the other Bishops in the world. They are descendants of other Apostles, right?

I had a question recently about our new Bishop – and someone asked where he could trace his Apostolic Succession to? I know this may be a silly question but I’m thinking that at this point, he, too would trace back to Peter, and not necessarily Paul or Matthew, or John, for example.

Thanks for helping clear up my muddle! I’m not quite sure how to answer this question.

Rhonda in GA


#2

[quote=Rhonda in GA]I know that the Holy Father has a tracable geneology (if you will), all the way back to Peter.

But what about the other Bishops in the world. They are descendants of other Apostles, right?

I had a question recently about our new Bishop – and someone asked where he could trace his Apostolic Succession to? I know this may be a silly question but I’m thinking that at this point, he, too would trace back to Peter, and not necessarily Paul or Matthew, or John, for example.

Thanks for helping clear up my muddle! I’m not quite sure how to answer this question.

Rhonda in GA
[/quote]

Not quite the same, I don’t think. The Holy Father’s apostolic lineage is NOT necessarily traceable back to Saint Peter, but to one of the Twelve (MAYBE Saint Peter). I don’t know how far back they have written records. His office is the same as Saint Peter’s office, indeed, the pope doesn’t succeed his immediate predecessor, rather he succeeds Saint Peter himself, immediately. He “got” his apostolic lineage when he was consecrated a bishop, long before he was ever Pope.


#3

[quote=JKirkLVNV]Not quite the same, I don’t think. The Holy Father’s apostolic lineage is NOT necessarily traceable back to Saint Peter, but to one of the Twelve (MAYBE Saint Peter). I don’t know how far back they have written records. His office is the same as Saint Peter’s office, indeed, the pope doesn’t succeed his immediate predecessor, rather he succeeds Saint Peter himself, immediately. He “got” his apostolic lineage when he was consecrated a bishop, long before he was ever Pope.
[/quote]

You are correct. You would trace the apostolic lineage of a bishop through the bishops who ordained him, not through the office.

As for the orginal post, this is the episcopal lineage/apostolic succession of your bishop. I am assuming you are in the Archdiocese of Atlanta, with ArchBishop Gregory installed in January. This goes back to the 1500’s:

[list]
*]Archbishop Wilton Daniel Gregory (1983)
*] Joseph Louis CardinalBernardin † (1966)
*]Archbishop Paul John Hallinan † (1958)
*] Amleto Giovanni CardinalCicognani † (1933)
*] Raffaele Carlo CardinalRossi, O.C.D. † (1920)
*] Gaetano CardinalDe Lai † (1911)
*]Pope St. Giuseppe Melchiorre Sarto † (1884)
*] Lucido Maria CardinalParocchi † (1871)
*] Costantino CardinalPatrizi Naro † (1828)
*] Carlo CardinalOdescalchi, S.J. † (1823)
*] Giulio Maria Cardinaldella Somaglia † (1788)
*] Hyacinthe-Sigismond CardinalGerdil, B. † (1777)
*] Marcantonio CardinalColonna † (1762)
*]Pope Carlo della Torre Rezzonico † (1743)
*]Pope Prospero Lorenzo Lambertini † (1724)
*]Pope Pietro Francesco (Vincenzo Maria) Orsini de Gravina, O.P. † (1675)
*] Paluzzo CardinalPaluzzi Altieri Degli Albertoni † (1666)
*] Ulderico CardinalCarpegna † (1630)
*] Luigi CardinalCaetani † (1622)
*] Ludovico CardinalLudovisi † (1621)
*]Archbishop Galeazzo Sanvitale † (1604)
*] Girolamo CardinalBernerio, O.P. † (1586)
*] Giulio Antonio CardinalSantorio † (1566)
*] Scipione CardinalRebiba
[/list]Interestingly, the Holy Father also traces his “lineage” back to Cardinal Rebiba (as does Cardinal Keeler, my ArchBishop).


#4

[quote=JKirkLVNV]Not quite the same, I don’t think. The Holy Father’s apostolic lineage is NOT necessarily traceable back to Saint Peter, but to one of the Twelve (MAYBE Saint Peter). I don’t know how far back they have written records. His office is the same as Saint Peter’s office, indeed, the pope doesn’t succeed his immediate predecessor, rather he succeeds Saint Peter himself, immediately. He “got” his apostolic lineage when he was consecrated a bishop, long before he was ever Pope.
[/quote]

I don’t think I understand exactly how this works!

When a Bishop becomes consecrated, he actually assumes Peter’s office – and is not necessarily considered a discendant of the Bishop before him. Have I got that right?

Rhonda in GA


#5

[quote=Rhonda in GA]I don’t think I understand exactly how this works!

When a Bishop becomes consecrated, he actually assumes Peter’s office – and is not necessarily considered a discendant of the Bishop before him. Have I got that right?

Rhonda in GA
[/quote]

I think what they are saying is that all bishops can trace their succession in some way back to one of the original apostles. In other words, the apostles ordained bishops and those bishops then ordained other bishops etc in a continous lineage though to the present. So a whole bunch of bishops are successors of St Peter, St Paul etc.

The Pope, who as a bishop may or may not trace his succession back to St Peter, none-the-less occupies the Chair of St Peter which is an office, like that of a President.

It sounds complex to me because I haven’t studied it in sufficient detail. It appears that the bishop that ordains you is the one that determines the roots of your succession. If you subseqently become Pope, that won’t change. You will have special Petrine authority by virtue of the office you now occupy, not based on your succession. You don’t switch from one lineage to the other once you become Pope.


#6

[quote=mtr01]You are correct. You would trace the apostolic lineage of a bishop through the bishops who ordained him, not through the office.

As for the orginal post, this is the episcopal lineage/apostolic succession of your bishop. I am assuming you are in the Archdiocese of Atlanta, with ArchBishop Gregory installed in January. This goes back to the 1500’s:

[list]
*]Archbishop Wilton Daniel Gregory (1983)
*]Joseph Louis Cardinal Bernardin † (1966)
*]Archbishop Paul John Hallinan † (1958)
*]Amleto Giovanni Cardinal Cicognani † (1933)
*]Raffaele Carlo Cardinal Rossi, O.C.D. † (1920)
*]Gaetano Cardinal De Lai † (1911)
*]Pope St. Giuseppe Melchiorre Sarto † (1884)
*]Lucido Maria Cardinal Parocchi † (1871)
*]Costantino Cardinal Patrizi Naro † (1828)
*]Carlo Cardinal Odescalchi, S.J. † (1823)
*]Giulio Maria Cardinal della Somaglia † (1788)
*]Hyacinthe-Sigismond Cardinal Gerdil, B. † (1777)
*]Marcantonio Cardinal Colonna † (1762)
*]Pope Carlo della Torre Rezzonico † (1743)
*]Pope Prospero Lorenzo Lambertini † (1724)
*]Pope Pietro Francesco (Vincenzo Maria) Orsini de Gravina, O.P. † (1675)
*]Paluzzo Cardinal Paluzzi Altieri Degli Albertoni † (1666)
*]Ulderico Cardinal Carpegna † (1630)
*]Luigi Cardinal Caetani † (1622)
*]Ludovico Cardinal Ludovisi † (1621)
*]Archbishop Galeazzo Sanvitale † (1604)
*]Girolamo Cardinal Bernerio, O.P. † (1586)
*]Giulio Antonio Cardinal Santorio † (1566)
*]Scipione Cardinal Rebiba
[/list]Interestingly, the Holy Father also traces his “lineage” back to Cardinal Rebiba (as does Cardinal Keeler, my ArchBishop).
[/quote]

Just by looking at that website, it appears a lot of bishops do. It doesn’t show who Cardinal Rebiba traces his lineage from though. I assume that means that there are no records before that point.


#7

Hmmmmm looks like I’m posting a bit. Nothing better to do today. I should have used the word consecrate rather than ordain.

I’ve done a Google search and found this:

One startling fact emerges from this research: more than 91% of the more than 4,300 bishops alive today trace their orders back to a single bishop named in 1541 - Scipione Rebiba. Why so many bishops should trace their lineages to this one bishop can be explained, in great part, by the intense sacramental activity of Pope Benedict XIII, who consecrated 139 bishops during his pontificate, many of them cardinals, nuncios and bishops of important sees who in turn consecrated many other bishops. And it is the consecrator of Benedict XIII who gives us the direct link to Scipione Rebiba. It is widely believed that Rebiba was consecrated by Gian Pietro Cardinal Carafa, who became Pope Paul IV, but no documentation of any kind has been found and therefore we must stop at Rebiba.

ucl.ac.uk/~ucgbmxd/johnpaul.htm

Another site:
mysite.verizon.net/res7gdmc/aposccs/


#8

[quote=teajay]Just by looking at that website, it appears a lot of bishops do. It doesn’t show who Cardinal Rebiba traces his lineage from though. I assume that means that there are no records before that point.
[/quote]

I think the common denominator, as I see it, is either Pope Clement XIII or Benedict XIII, who trace their lineage to this Cardinal Rebiba. Granted I just started clicking random bishops after seeing your post, and that’s where I saw most connections.


#9

[quote=teajay]Hmmmmm looks like I’m posting a bit. Nothing better to do today. I should have used the word consecrate rather than ordain.

I’ve done a Google search and found this:

ucl.ac.uk/~ucgbmxd/johnpaul.htm

Another site:
mysite.verizon.net/res7gdmc/aposccs/
[/quote]

HAHA! I should have read this before writing my last post! Thanks for the info, I had never really noticed that before you brought it up


#10

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