arab islamic view on women and women sexuality.

Scary!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM&feature=PlayList&p=90361C213F0F8200&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14

youtube.com/watch?v=nDqWGtykYNE&feature=PlayList&p=90361C213F0F8200&index=18&playnext=5&playnext_from=PL

Please… only comments from those who had the honesty to watch these videos…

I saw those videos and many more.I especially liked the one on Iranian policewomen in hajib- it was hilarious.Next funniest was comparing the “opressed” Christian women and the “liberated” Muslim women- equally hilarious.
Seriously though- how to beat your wife? How a woman must stop everything and give her husband sex no matter what her feelings are?Honor killings? compelling women to become suicide bombers so they can eliminate their’disgraces’?Rape victims being executed for “their” crimes?Beaten for not wearing their clothes correctly?these are police states,I’ll hear"well that’s not real Islam" or the are not “really obeying the Quran” or"real "Sharia.well if that’s true , if these “radicals” are causing Islam to be demeaned should’nt other Muslims be complaining? Shouldn’t there be massive demonstrations against such people?That’s what I think bothers westerners and non-muslims.The silence is deafening-silence =acceptance, approval,assent.

The first viedeo is talking about women abuse in the arabs world and how the police of the ciorrupt regimes wont interfere. There is nothing in Islam that allows a husband to lock his wife for example. As for the woimen not knowing their rights , well thats a problem that the whole arab world suffers from and not just women . Dictators love making peopel ignore their rights and the last thing they think about is advancing women awareness. They want the whole population to remain in ignorance and in darkness.

The second video is pure sarcasm . I am an Egypian . The lady is making fun of how boys in the arab world who many of them claim to suppiort resistance against israel , which is such a noble cause in their eyes , would be doing horrible crimes as sexual harassement . So out of sarcasm she is inviting them to do this resistance to Israel instead of their own compatriots, which is pure sarcasm. Notice how she mentions that non existance of laws against sexual harassement in arab countries . Her call is made so it grabs headlines so that she can shed the light on her true issue, teh absence of secual harassement laws in many arab countries and the rise of teh phenomenom.

As for the title that you chose for your thread . It is uterly false . Even in times of war for example in islam , it prohibits harming non combatants. and especially women and children and the elderly.

Sorry… but I believe the backwardness of the Muslim world is intimately linked with the religion of Islam. Until now I have come to that conclusion.
As for your second logics… that the woman on the TV show should in fact be calling for reform of their own legal systems… thats an interesting perpective… but why does she not say at any time that she is joking? She seems to be acting, then, and saying that “zionist” girls have no rights and should be sexually harassed. You can also see beneath the talk on youtube that the people who saw the clip did not see it as sarcasm. Some Arabs there even agreed with the sick logic of the woman… so maybe you are the only one who understood that it was all a joke?

And no, I believe that Islam dehumanises women and that all muslim cultures have a great problem with treating women as second ranking citizens that dont have the same rights as men and who are socially controlled. They have limited rights to their own children, to wear what they want and go where they want. Even in my country we have honour killings and girls are not allowed the same things as boys in our Muslim communities. if eg. a Muslim girl is seen talking with a boy at school she is in big troube. We have even young women who have gone undercover because of this.
Also many go to the hospitals to have a fake virginity-operation because they had sex. So they can go into their arranged marriage and say they are virgins out of fear, while all we ever see is young arab guys roaming the streets at night hanging out with western girls…
I give you the speech of two women who grew up in Muslim societies: Wafa Sultan youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM&feature=fvsr
and Ayaan Hirsi Ali: youtube.com/watch?v=rOy7Rj71m4k&feature=related
Why is it that they agree with me? They have felt Islam on their own body…

What do you expect of a religion founded by a pedophile?

interesting !
so , the christianity is linked with progress through the history :wink:

Until now I have come to that conclusion.

i can feel your intelligence :thumbsup:

As for your second logics… that the woman on the TV show should in fact be calling for reform of their own legal systems… thats an interesting perpective… but why does she not say at any time that she is joking? She seems to be acting, then, and saying that “zionist” girls have no rights and should be sexually harassed. You can also see beneath the talk on youtube that the people who saw the clip did not see it as sarcasm. Some Arabs there even agreed with the sick logic of the woman… so maybe you are the only one who understood that it was all a joke?

the word islam never mentioned in your clip , and the woman didn’t talk about islam at all , may be she didn’t even said that she is muslim , so why you inserting the religion ? is that because she speaking arabic ?

And no, I believe that Islam dehumanises women and that all muslim cultures have a great problem with treating women as second ranking citizens that dont have the same rights as men and who are socially controlled. They have limited rights to their own children, to wear what they want and go where they want. Even in my country we have honour killings and girls are not allowed the same things as boys in our Muslim communities. if eg. a Muslim girl is seen talking with a boy at school she is in big troube. We have even young women who have gone undercover because of this.

you can believe what you want about muslims women , but muslims women themselfs are satisfied with islam religion .

Also many go to the hospitals to have a fake virginity-operation because they had sex. So they can go into their arranged marriage and say they are virgins out of fear, while all we ever see is young arab guys roaming the streets at night hanging out with western girls…
I give you the speech of two women who grew up in Muslim societies: Wafa Sultan youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM&feature=fvsr
and Ayaan Hirsi Ali: youtube.com/watch?v=rOy7Rj71m4k&feature=related
Why is it that they agree with me? They have felt Islam on their own body…

i can give you speach of american women who grew up in christian societies , talking about their reasons to convert into islam and wear hijab and talking about how islam gave the woman rights and protection and respect

http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif I watched that Video, its not a sarcasm, I think that woman is really possessed with devil, how on earth she calls for such actions!!!

**elwill;

]interesting !
so , the christianity is linked with progress through the history ;)**

Of course.
And every scolar and Christian theologian would agree. There is an inherent freedom in Christianity, because its antiviolent, praises logic and reason, and asks for compassion on the sinner. Christ comes as a humble servant. He never forced anyone to take on Christianity, never lifted his hand on non-believers, never talked down to women.
Jesus was a religious critic of Judaism in His own day. He showed the true intention from God is not to supress people but to set them free to be who they really are. Therefore Christ can be likened to the biggest therapist who ever lived. He gave identity to the individual -. we are not just part of masses - He restored the sinner by setting him/her free of sin through love, not through fear. etc etc.
Christ was not a politician so there can be no valid theocracy among Christians. This is unlike Muhammad who started a totalitarian political ideology sanctioned by religion. This religion does not allow free inquery. To doubt is already to sin according to Islam.

the word islam never mentioned in your clip , and the woman didn’t talk about islam at all , may be she didn’t even said that she is muslim , so why you inserting the religion ? is that because she speaking arabic ?

Because Islam sactions violence against women and treats them as second ranking citizens.
A woman, like this one in the video, would probably be charged for inciting to violence in a western democracy, but in the Muslim world she is taken seriously and listened to.
We cannot seperate religion from culture/mentality.

you can believe what you want about muslims women , but muslims women themselfs are satisfied with islam religion .
i can give you speach of american women who grew up in christian societies , talking about their reasons to convert into islam and wear hijab and talking about how islam gave the woman rights and protection and respect.

And I can give you a bunch of former Muslim women who became Christian or atheists because they saw maltreatment and supression as part of Islam. The Christians now stand tall as daughters of God, not slaves anymore.
So whats the point. People go from one kind of slavery to the other… from one tyranny to the other. “Heaven for a Muslim woman is to be under her husbands shoe”, Muhammad said that… is that blizz? not to me… maybe for some. I heard some true honest wisdom
about Islam from this woman: youtube.com/watch?v=rOy7Rj71m4k&feature=related

This whole bunch of talk is irrelevant. Islam prohibits what these men are doing. Just because they are bieng arab men doesnt mean they are acting as per Islam. As for Hirsi Ali and Wafaa Sultan , Both of them turned top be liars. IOn Fact in The netherlands Hirsi Ali had a proposal against her to withdraw teh citizen ship because she turned out to be lying to get assylum.

as much as i discuss the reasoning of christians , i feel that your religion not exceeds the words
you can talk about the love in christianity and how peacefull it is , but most of you can’t show us such love within a simple discussion about other faiths

Christ was not a politician so there can be no valid theocracy among Christians. This is unlike Muhammad who started a totalitarian political ideology sanctioned by religion. This religion does not allow free inquery. To doubt is already to sin according to Islam.

i need some explanation about bold statement plz

the word islam never mentioned in your clip , and the woman didn’t talk about islam at all , may be she didn’t even said that she is muslim , so why you inserting the religion ? is that because she speaking arabic ?

Because Islam sactions violence against women and treats them as second ranking citizens.
A woman, like this one in the video, would probably be charged for inciting to violence in a western democracy, but in the Muslim world she is taken seriously and listened to.
We cannot seperate religion from culture/mentality.

so it just your personal conclusion that it’s islamic , yet in the fact it’s not islamic openion atall , do you confess !

you can believe what you want about muslims women , but muslims women themselfs are satisfied with islam religion .
i can give you speach of american women who grew up in christian societies , talking about their reasons to convert into islam and wear hijab and talking about how islam gave the woman rights and protection and respect.

And I can give you a bunch of former Muslim women who became Christian or atheists because they saw maltreatment and supression as part of Islam. The Christians now stand tall as daughters of God, not slaves anymore.
So whats the point. People go from one kind of slavery to the other… from one tyranny to the other. “Heaven for a Muslim woman is to be under her husbands shoe”, Muhammad said that… is that blizz? not to me… maybe for some. I heard some true honest wisdom
about Islam from this woman: youtube.com/watch?v=rOy7Rj71m4k&feature=related

thank you . my point is that personal openion of some muslims or another proof nothing , let us grew up with constructive discussion then
understand our view first then discuss it with us if you object , not to accuse islam for things which muslims themselfs object

Do you speak Arabic?

**elwill;

as much as i discuss the reasoning of christians , i feel that your religion not exceeds the words
you can talk about the love in christianity and how peacefull it is , but most of you can’t show us such love within a simple discussion about other faiths **

You mean, if I love you I wont critizise your religion? That’s nonsense. Precisely because I love you I want to challenge you so that you eventually push off the chains.
My concept of love, I think, is different from the one in the Muslim world. In the Muslim world no one can critizise Muhammad without having death-threats and fatwas.
The fact is this. You want to get down to the point?
I have a democratic discussion with you and all I ever wanted to hear was for Muslims to say, YES: we despise phedofilia, yes we despise polygami, yes we despise supression of women because we believe in full equality of the sexes, yes we believe in free speech and freedom of religion and that no religion has the right to kill anyone in its name…"
I want you to say all these things and then say:“And I know these things happens too much in the Middle Eastern Muslim countries, I abhor this and want to tell my fellow Muslims to respect people and to demontrate for the freedom and equality of all no matter gender, colour or creed”.
Thats what I want anyone of you to say, yet it has seemed to be an unsurmountable thing for you to say. So what happens is that I get more and more worried about Islam and I think more and more that it stripped you of your humanity and free thinking.

so it just your personal conclusion that it’s islamic , yet in the fact it’s not islamic openion atall , do you confess !

I cannot confess anything when you havent confessed that the behaviour in the videos is just horrible. I believe that Muslim culture fosters supression of women, so I cannot take that back.

thank you . my point is that personal openion of some muslims or another proof nothing , let us grew up with constructive discussion then
understand our view first then discuss it with us if you object , not to accuse islam for things which muslims themselfs object.

Good, so please dont get emotional. Okay. so today you are ready for a contructive discussion. Can I ask you one question then and we take it from there?
Did Muhammad have sex with a 9 year old child? Yes or no?

As for Hirsi Ali. Holland knew she had lied. Like every person on the run, she lied to escape the forced marriage that her father arranged. She was clear about that from the beginning of ther political carreer, long before the media made a fuss over it.
Wafa Sultan lived 30 years in Syria, you simly call her liar in order not to deal with the things she says about Islam… just like you always avoid the things we quote from your own Koran and Hadith…
Wafa Sultan rightly calls for the self-scrutiny of the Muslim world. The Christian world does not defend criminals and criminal acts committed by Christians past and present. Thats the difference between Islam and Christianity.

i think that i can distinguish between criticising and the hateness and insulting .
beside i prefere to hear you criticise my thoughts when you listen to it , not just to criticise the entire religion
for example , criticising islam because of honour killing isn’t a big deal for muslims because muslims allready believe allready that it’s crime and major sin in islam
so by criticising such practise , you will find majority of muslims in your side . but criticising islam itself isn’t fair for muslims or for islam

My concept of love, I think, is different from the one in the Muslim world. In the Muslim world no one can critizise Muhammad without having death-threats and fatwas.
The fact is this. You want to get down to the point?

in muslims world insulting of other faiths are prohibited
actually allah prohibited muslims to insult any other faiths

read this verse which suggest pure freedom for other religions under islam
108 - Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance. thus have we made alluring to each people its own doings. in the end will they return to their lord, and we shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

I have a democratic discussion with you and all I ever wanted to hear was for Muslims to say, YES: we despise phedofilia, yes we despise polygami, yes we despise supression of women because we believe in full equality of the sexes, yes we believe in free speech and freedom of religion and that no religion has the right to kill anyone in its name…"

we despise phedofilia and supression of women and we believe in full equality of the sexes and yes we believe in free speech and freedom of releigion and that no one has the right to kill the other because of his releigion

I want you to say all these things and then say:“And I know these things happens too much in the Middle Eastern Muslim countries, I abhor this and want to tell my fellow Muslims to respect people and to demontrate for the freedom and equality of all no matter gender, colour or creed”.

i have no problem either to confess that bad things may happen in the muslims world as it may happen in every single country in the world and may be happen inside the churchs itself either

Thats what I want anyone of you to say, yet it has seemed to be an unsurmountable thing for you to say. So what happens is that I get more and more worried about Islam and I think more and more that it stripped you of your humanity and free thinking.

it was very easy , right !!!

so it just your personal conclusion that it’s islamic , yet in the fact it’s not islamic openion atall , do you confess !

I cannot confess anything when you havent confessed that the behaviour in the videos is just horrible. I believe that Muslim culture fosters supression of women, so I cannot take that back.

i said to you before you can believe that muslims fosters supression of women as you want , but muslims themselfs believe that suppression of women isn’t islamic teaching

so will you discuss with me my beliefs , or will you just critcise what you think that muslims believe

thank you . my point is that personal openion of some muslims or another proof nothing , let us grew up with constructive discussion then
understand our view first then discuss it with us if you object , not to accuse islam for things which muslims themselfs object.

Good, so please dont get emotional. Okay. so today you are ready for a contructive discussion. Can I ask you one question then and we take it from there?
Did Muhammad have sex with a 9 year old child? Yes or no?

yes , what is the problem with that

As for Hirsi Ali. Holland knew she had lied. Like every person on the run, she lied to escape the forced marriage that her father arranged. She was clear about that from the beginning of ther political carreer, long before the media made a fuss over it.
Wafa Sultan lived 30 years in Syria, you simly call her liar in order not to deal with the things she says about Islam… just like you always avoid the things we quote from your own Koran and Hadith…

in islam , it’s not possible for the parents to force thier daughter in marriage . can you proof me wrong from quran or sunnah

The Christian world does not defend criminals and criminal acts committed by Christians past and present. Thats the difference between Islam and Christianity.

i didn’t get your point
are you wanna to say that muslim world defend criminals and criminals acts commited by muslims , is that really your thoughts about muslims world ?

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