Arctic ice refuses to melt as ordered

Just a few weeks ago, predictions of Arctic ice collapse were buzzing all over the internet. Some scientists were predicting that the “North Pole may be ice-free for first time this summer”. Others predicted that the entire “polar ice cap would disappear this summer”.

The Arctic melt season is nearly done for this year. The sun is now very low above the horizon and will set for the winter at the North Pole in five weeks. And none of these dire predictions have come to pass. Yet there is, however, something odd going on with the ice data.

The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Boulder, Colorado released an alarming graph on August 11, showing that Arctic ice was rapidly disappearing, back towards last year’s record minimum. Their data shows Arctic sea ice extent only 10 per cent greater than this date in 2007, and the second lowest on record. Here’s a smaller version of the graph:

| story |

How dare the ice refuse to comply with the “global warming” predictions!!! :eek:

Can we expect the call for criminal charges and decertification that the Arctic Ice is actually ice? :rolleyes::cool:

Hey, 10% less of it melted than expected … so shoot them … still 'taint natural by no means to have such massive melts two years in a row.

Maybe, maybe not. Gore and company will find a way to blame the ice melting on the big, bad United States, while excusing the innocent Chinese. :rolleyes:

Not knowing anything much about Gore’s views on the matter, whether or not he blames the Chinese is no reason for America (and indeed Australia) not to do their utmost to stop their own contribution to global warming.

It’s not like America can’t make a significant impact on its own with this. That being the case, it has an obligation to take what measures it can unilaterally.

I agree, but the problem is that efforts like the Kyoto Treaty only place the responsibility on the U.S. and other developed nations, while excusing China and third world countries from that responsibility.

Global warming, if it’s man made or not, would affect all, not just the First World countries, and yet it’s only the First World countries that get the blame.

Kyoto isn’t really blaming anyone for anything, it’s more about recognising that we’re pretty much the only ones at this point in time who are realistically capable of doing anything about it.

And pragmatically recognising, as well, that third world nations have the problems they do largely because we’ve used them as places where we can cheaply have the goods we want manufactured, this cheapness partly being due to lack of environmental regulations.

A bit like how a doctor isn’t to blame for his patient’s illness, but he may be ordered to operate, because he is able to do so whereas the patient isn’t. :shrug:

http://bestsmileys.com/shooting1/3.gif

:D:p

Well, depending on the patient’s illness, that illness could’ve been prevented through keeping his or her body in healthy condition. Same thing with third world countries; as they develop get safeguards in place so their development wouldn’t contribute to global warming (still not convinced of the extent of man’s contribution to global warming).

I don’t know why, but here in Northern Illinois we are in the middle of one of the coolist summers in decades. I think we have reached 90 only 2 or 3 times. I look for ComEd to ask for a rate hike because consumption of electricity was way down. For those of you who don’t live here this is the way it works in Illinois:

  1. Electric consumption is down, ComEd asks for a rate hike because they didn’t sell as much as they expected.
  2. Electric consumption is up, ComEd asks for a rate hike because they sold more than they expected and had to buy it off the grid.
  3. Electric consumption was exactly as expected, ComEd asks for a rate hike because they have to pay more for analysts who are this good.

Lance and others, I too live in Illinois and my house is set at 73 but rarely does the a/c go on. I went to northern England for a week and asked if it is ever warm enough for people to go swimming at the beaches. The response I received from everyone is that it is always much warmer there in the summer, but for some reason, this summer has been exceptionally much cooler (I had to wear long pant and a sweater each day). This was the first week of August when most places are suppose to be extremely warm (heck, that’s the reason why Congress has traditionally taken a recess because of the heat and humidity that comes with being in DC in August).

Is China a Third World nation? If not why would they exempted from the Kyoto treaty. The United States Senate unanimously voted to reject his treaty. One of the few times both sides of the aisle joined to kill a terrible proposal.

WHo is to say it isn’t “natural” we really have very few records…Had we lived 14,000 years ago would we be talking about how UNNATURAL it was that the ice in the Bering Straights was melting?

And had we lived in the period following the Medieval Warming Period, we would be talking about how unnatural it is that one can no longer grow grain or raise livestock in Greenland, have a thriving wine industry in England or sail the “Northwest Passage”. (Oops! I guess they still can’t!)

I have three doctors in my immediate family - they would treat any patient whatsoever who needed treatment, regardless of how their condition was caused - although they may lecture the patient on their stupidity while they were doing it.

It’s the job of a doctor. And it’s the job of any global citizen to do their utmost to curb global warming which affects us all. When you see someone bleeding to death in front of you you shouldnt stop to lecture them on how it’s their own fault and NOT at the same time do everything possible to save their life.

My point is that some conditions are preventable through good habits. Allowing China to be exempt from agreements like Kyoto, while punishing the U.S. is unfair, but also counter-productive. On the other hand, making sure China takes care of the environment as it continues to gain legitimacy on the world stage is akin to developing good habits like a person exercising and eating properly.

Well, what about the articles I’ve read that say Venus and Mars have experienced upticks in temp? Are we causing that, too?

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece

biocab.org/Temperature_and_Solar_Radiation.html

motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/global-warming-on-jupiter.html

This all just sounds a bit too much like someone trying to scare us out of using fossil fuels or something. Or like more of the environmentalist religion at work.

But maybe that’s just me.

I realize that what happens in one locale does not tell what’s happening in the rest of the world. But I have lived within 200 miles of the same place all my life, and never have I seen a winter with more cold days than last winter. Nor have I ever seen a summer cooler than this one.

Qe had snow above the 10,000 foot level this weekend-it was in the 30s Saturday and Sunday Night. Very cool for this time of the year.

Global warming is causing the cold winters… and the warm winters.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.