Are all sins REALLY forgiveable?


#1

THe bible makes it quite clear that blasphemy against the Spirt is unforgiveable yet we teach that anyone who blasphemes or disecrates God can be forgiven if they trully repent… have we put a modernist touch on a ancient biblical tradition?

I always laugh at modern day penance… fornication say 3 hail marys… the early irish penitentials 3 years 3 months 3 days on bread and water ALONE! We have become soft


#2

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit means refusal to accept the grace of redemption offered by the Holy Spirit, in other words refusing to repent or ask forgiveness for your sins. We must make that step in order to be forgiven. It is the only sin not forgiven.

As for the penance, remember that is not the temporal punishment for the sin. It is our sign that we are serious about wanting to be forgiven.

Here is a simple example:

Child: "I am sorry for spilling the milk container"
Parent: (penance): "I forgive you, give me a hug"
Parent: (temporal punishment): “Now please clean up the spilled milk and throw the container out”


#3

no really, i want to know, is speaking against God an unforgivable sin? thats what i was told… i had a terrible past with going against God and everything about Him… this eats at me everyday. i have recieved so many answers. and then comes the question of suicide… if blasphomy is the only unforgivable sin, what about that?

seriously, i would like to know the clean cut definition of blasphomy, while we are all here in this post


#4

Id question the moral and doctrinal integrity of the priest your confessing to.


#5

2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech; in misusing God’s name. St. James condemns those "who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called."78 The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ’s Church, the saints, and sacred things. It is also blasphemous to make use of God’s name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. The misuse of God’s name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion.

Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin. 79

This does not say that it is an unforgiveable sin. See next post about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which is unforgivable due to the nature of the definition.


#6

also

1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.


#7

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is …“Final despair in the mercy of God”.
This is not a “modernist” view, unless you call Aquinas and the people before him modernists.

BTW…Modernism is not “everything modern”, as if every new direction of Theology can be categorised as modernist. Modernism is a series of errors which are corrected by Pope Pius X.


#8

Why would you say that?

The severity of the penance is COMPLETELY unrelated to the efficacy of the sacrament.

We don’t earn our forgiveness through penance.

St. John Vianney, renowned as perhaps the greatest confessor of all, urged mild penances.

God bless,

Arthur


#9

Thats a good point, and I never denied the efficacy of the sacrament regardless of what penance, if any, was given.

I guess from your perspective you saw, in this specific example, the sinner guilty of fornication was truly sorry and that the fact they were humble enough to confess was where the matter should be focused, not on the degree of penance. I would agree with you on that, contrition (with follow up confession) is the most important aspect. From the other perspective, I saw what appeared to be a mockery of the Sacrament of Penance in which someone who fornicated went through the motions in the confessional with the mentality, “1 fornication = 3 hail marys…no biggie”


#10

Given that he shows mercy as Christ shows mercy, I am curious why you would question it - or do you presume the priest to not model Christ?

There is nothing in either the doctrinal or moral teaching of the Church that would say that the penance given was in any way questionable.


#11

This is undeniable, it is what scripture says. HOWEVER how does blasphemy against God in anyway reflect this philosophical constructive arugment below:

No where in the verse is that implied. It is straight forward, any blasphemy against the Spirt (God) is unforgiveable. No mention of not accepting mercy, etc!?


#12

They better be! Or we’re all SOL.
That is precisely what the mercy of God is about - forgiving what man thinks unforgivable.
Besides, we have all been corrupted by the Greko-Roman philosophical concept of justice as fairness. When the equation is based on love, fairness becomes unimportant.

Matthew


#13

Quote:
Originally Posted by gvogt4 View Post
also

1864 “Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”

This is undeniable, it is what scripture says. HOWEVER how does blasphemy against God in anyway reflect this philosophical constructive argument below:

Quote:Originally Posted by gvogt4 View Post
also
136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
No where in the verse is that implied. It is straight forward, any blasphemy against the Spirt (God) is unforgiveable. No mention of not accepting mercy, etc!?
_
I believe that the second quote tells us how the Church interprets that Scripture Verse. If one wishes to reject that interpretation well…


#14

As I read it, the verse makes a clear distinction between “blasphemy” and “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit”. “Every sin AND BLASPHEMY will be forgiven men, BUT the blasphemy AGAINST THE SPIRIT will not be forgiven .” Blasphemy (which can ONLY be against God by definition) will be forgiven, but blasphemy AGAINST THE SPIRIT (which is a specific TYPE of blasphemy) will not be forgiven.

I genuinely fail to see why this is such a problem to reconcile.


#15

Every sin will be forgiven but what Jesus was saying is that once one attributes the works of God that are openly works of God to the devil they are so far delusioned that they shall never attain heaven for they shall never perceive God in order to be sorry for their sin. It is not that all sins are not forgivable it is that to commit such sins one must be so blind that they could never ask for forgiveness…


#16

Exactly, you get my point. I can see your point, but I don’t think it works that way for most people. When I first returned to confession after many, many years, it was confessing itself that was hard; having the humility to admit your sins to another person. I would much rather have said 100 rosaries and been able to “confess” directly to God, than confess to the priest and say one Hail Mary.

Also to clarify, contrition and confession are the only important parts. Penance itself is totally unnecessary to absolution. A priest could give no penance, or you could not do the penance, and you would still be absolved.

God Bless,


#17

Although if you omit your penance you can be guilty of a seperate sin.


#18

you guys are bringing your modern day interpretations of theology in… look at the history of the sacrament of confession… in the early church you were only given ONE chance in your whle life… this is why last rites became just that… if you only had one chance in your life to confess your sins, you did it on your death bed… i think the older practices that were much omre ascetic (ie. bread and water for 3 years) is much more God fearing and reverent


#19

While you may feel it is more God-fearing and reverent, it was the ascetic practices of the early Church which almost lead to the loss of one of the Sacraments - Confirmation; with the decision that Reconcilliation was availabe only opnce in life, it lead to deathbed conversions; and if the person waiting happened to die before someone could get there to baptize them… not good.

Further, the ascetic practices were a rigour that even Christ did not require, and could be said to not follow His example of mercy. And ultimately, are we not to follow Christ’s example of mercy rather than our own estimation of justice?


#20

Jesus said that when annoyed. He had cured a few sick people, and then various worthies were making out that He had done it through the power of Satan. It is quite impossible to get through to people as determined as that. However it probably doesn’t mean that all hope was lost, merely that they were putting up exceptionally difficult obstacles to salvation.


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