I am already aware and I can acknowledge that, a shame that De_Maria can’t look at Islam objectively and instead said:
I usually get frustrated with overly conservative (rather, zealous would be a better word) Christians here too because sometimes they are out to disagree with you without trying to understand what you are saying
But honestly, there are people like this everywhere.
SalamKhan, I married into a family of irrational conservative Evangelicals, and I know they’re out there. If you’re interested you might find looking at the effects the Great Awakening had on shaping what we today might call “Christian Fundamentalism”. Once I studied some of the history I began to see the foundations of thought that undoubtedly shaped these beliefs. At least for me, it helps a lot if I can say, “Ok, I don’t agree with you but now I understand where you’re coming from.” Also, a lot of life-long Catholics I know are often unaware that there are folks like this out there.
What’s the ‘Great Awakening’?
It was a religious/social movement in America. It was largely a reaction to the educated and traditional churches such as Anglicanism and Presbyterians. A whole new group of preachers popped up who basically distrusted the “Churchmen” and their higher education and systematic theology. These preachers basically felt you just needed a Bible and people to listen to you preach. So orthodoxy and Tradition went by the way side.
It laid the foundation for what would later be called Fundamentalism, and the distrust for higher education, religious tradition and ceremony was carried through.
Oh, so that would explain why most of today’s Protestants have discarded the Church Fathers even though the original Protestant Reformers respected the Church Fathers.
It’s not the only reason- the Piligrims came here already with unorthodox views on certain Christian institutions, and the less yolked with a “Church” they were the more theological freedom they had. Th Great Awakening was a shot in the arm for people who were weary with traditional churches and the men who ran them.
No, just human-and not particularly far along in their faith.
I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into Internet forums. They quite often devolve I to a game of “I-am-the-Smartest-Person-in-the-Room.” It is a game most of us are ill equipped to play.
Brother in Abraham:
The first issue I have is that this question is a complex question fallacy.
I am, however, sorry about your experience on here. I don’t think I’ve ever accused anyone of lying and I know I’ve never said anyone is involved in Taqiyaa in the 7 years I have been on here.
If that’s the case, there is no point. I ignore and do not respond to those users.
You should not assume that a few negative experiences means everyone will act like that.
Yeah tell that to the Eastern Christian who has Islam in his face saying convert or we will cut your head off your shoulders. I can’t remember a time in history when Islam was not a die by the sword kind of religion.
If you type “ultra conservative Catholic” into Google, you will come up with Opus Dei, which is exactly such a sect. There are others, and there are self-styled ultra conservative catholics. Catholic comedian Jim Gaffigan says his wife is a “Shiite Catholic!” LOL. Seriously, I see a lot of ultra conservative Catholics on this site.
I also think that anti-Muslim sentiment runs strong in America right now. It is wrong and I don’t support it, but I can understand it. People are afraid of the radical Islamists and they are generalizing that what applies to a few applies to all.
But I always like to analyze situations like this by flipping the problem around. If, as a Catholic, I were in a Muslim country, I would be more afraid for my safety and more afraid to speak my mind than a Muslim or ex-Muslim would need to be in this country. At least the OP does not need to be worried about being beheaded by Catholics, although he probably should be worried about his former Muslim friends.
The only thing I know about Opus Dei is
- It was founded by St. Josemaria Escriva, the patron saint of diabetes, who also was devoted to his guardian angel and I think had seen his guardian angel; and
- I decided not to join them because St. Josemaria thought every day should begin with you jumping out of bed the minute the alarm goes off, and if I could do stuff like that I would have just joined the military.
If they are truly ultraconservative then maybe they would be in a better mood and more moderate if they all sleep in a bit.
why is it wrong? the government blocks christianity every chance it can but seems to go out of its way to appease muslims.
radical islamists are historical islamists: read a history of the domination.
but the issue is only one can be true, either Jesus is God or he isn’t. we that believe Jesus is God must do all we can to spread the gospel to our muslim acquaintances. when one discusses the Koran using logic we are called islamophobic.
All good points. What you’re saying is that Christians are suffering persecution right now. Mild political persecution here in America and terrible persecution in some parts of the world, often at the hands of Muslims. There are two ways to go with that. We can persecute back in retaliation, or we can be bigger than them and not do to them what we hate in them doing to us. Which direction would Jesus choose? I think we know the answer.
I am not saying we be doormats. If there is injustice and we can stop it by whatever means, I am all for it. But just having a generalized hate for Muslims makes no more sense than radical Muslims’ generalized hate of us.
I see it kind of like Genesis 18, Abraham pleading for Sodom. Not all Muslims are radical. It seems to be a minority. So to paraphrase, "Suppose there are fifty righteous Muslims; will You indeed sweep them away for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it?… And of course Abraham goes on to bargain The Lord down to sparing Sodom for the sake of only 10 righteous men.
There are righteous Muslims and I would forego hating them all for the sake of those righteous ones. The radical ones, however, would get no mercy from me at all.
i don’t think this is proper terminology. the Koran and hadith make it quite clear what the intentions of the prophet were and is.
Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
you may not believe their teachings but they do and some of us do.
believing in what has been taught for centuries and defending against it isn’t hate; it is common sense
I hear you. Some of those passages in the Koran are truly holding that whole faith back from entering the modern world. But there is a significant percentage of Muslims, especially the Sunni Muslims that are the majority, who do not take a literal or extremist view of those passages. Again, for the sake of those righteous Muslims, I will not judge them all.
Also, we need to learn how to coexist with them. Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet. There will come a point where if we haven’t helped them into peacefully being a part of the modern world, we will only have options that are too terrible to contemplate.
are you sure? isn’t iran sunni?
The Quran, together with hadith (especially those collected in Kutub al-Sittah) and binding juristic consensus form the basis of all traditional jurisprudence within Sunni Islam.
In 2010, Iran was 95% Shia and only 5% Sunni, so no.
As I said, Muslim scriptures are a serious issue. But most Muslims have come to terms with it.
i stand corrected thanks
at the end of the day all muslims will follow their book or be counted as apostate,
which islam does al-qaeda follow?