Are only Catholics destined for Heaven?


#203

It seems to me that one has to be careful in engaging in arguments that are similar in nature to those between Pharisees and Saducees. I’m sure it’s fine to argue that everyone will be Catholic in heaven if you follow the Catholic rule book. I reckon the truth is no one knows who has not died.
One of the reasons that Christ had to die on the cross was that the chosen nation (the Israelites) weren’t getting the point. So if anything I would say we are more likely to be Jewish in heaven.

However, religion is a human construct so there won’t be religion in heaven as there won’t be a need for it. Also to narrow what God can do by saying all will be Catholics in heaven is surely limiting God’s power?


#204

The video makes it plain that the teaching of the doctrine of the fewness of the saved is not just one person’s idea. As for why one discovers that Catholicism was right after all after one is dead, well, I would have to say that that is due to there being only one sort of afterlife. I suppose though, that in accordance with the many universes idea of quantum mechanics, there might be an infinite number of heavenly histories and thus a heaven where St. Lucifer caste the arch-demon Michael out of heaven, one where it was Peter who betrayed Jesus and Judas who was the first pope, etc., but as far as I know, that is only something that is just my own wild supposition. I don’t really take that idea seriously, but merely toss it out there as a possible alternative to there being only one sort afterlife. There are many alternatives to the many universes idea as a being a ‘solution’ to the mystery of how quantum mechanics can be the way that it is, and no teaching whatsoever that there is a heavenly history other than the one the church teaches.

This is one book that discusses some of the alternatives to the many universes idea: The Infamous Boundary: Seven Decades of Controversy in Quantum Physics.


#205

But that video is the product of fallible, human minds, who have zero experience with the afterlife.

People can, and do, guess all they want, but it amounts to no more than a guess.

No matter how many universes, there is only one God. Once people meet him and know the truth, no one will be following a path of formal religion. It won’t be necessary. Religion will cease to exist when God is known.


#206

Do you also say that about the sermons given by the saints discussed in the video?


#208

The Apostles’ Creed

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen.

I think you are going against one of the central tenets of Catholicism here. I think it best if I unsubscribed from this thread. I will let the mods deal with this.


#209

No, not only catholic go to heaven. But if you read the post once there youre “catholic” as only “catholics” are in heaven.


#210

You are welcome. That is the standard practice of Baptism for hundreds of millions of Christians, it is how my wife would have been baptised.


#211

Let the mods deal with what? The Apostle’s Creed is something Catholic’s and other Christians recite. I see nothing for mods to deal with when Kaninchen points out the way saints are viewed in Catholicism is not of particular relevance if you are Jewish. I at this point highly doubt there is any afterlife of any kind but if there is I don’t think God will be constrained by any faith or easily summed up by any either. If we do encounter the supreme being after death or others who have died I suspect those experiences would not be translatable easily into words we can currently understand.


#212

There are two and ONLY two things you 100% have to agree with in the faith. Both of those are Ex cathedra spoken from the chair of peter.

Next the poster is JEWISH, they are not required to agree with anything catholic. Is this board getting to the point that any discussion on the faith must only be if you agree with 100% of the faith?


#213

I’m completely aware of the points you’ve made. But rather than defending myself, which is a temptation, I recognize we’ve lost the original discussion. So I’ll end it here. God bless, and thank you for your time.
-Tuus in Iesu, Maria, et Ioseph


#214

You’re complaining because I pointed out that Jews aren’t impressed by saintly imprimatur?


#215

Seems a bit odd to me, it is a bit like you complaining if I say I don’t keep a Kosher kitchen because it’s not relevant to me. It’s always easy to imagine our own religious ‘realities’ are the only paradigm and to be shocked when we suddenly encounter people who don’t subscribe to them. That seems to happen an awful lot both in reality and CAF and of course is to be expected.


#216

I think people are often taken aback when they realise just how different the beliefs of non-Christian religions are from their lived ‘norm’ and that ideas used in inter/intra-Christian discussion just don’t ‘work’.

Perhaps I should be affronted by the idea that I should be informed by the views of the saints but, strangely perhaps, I’m not. :wink:


#217

You’ve been doing this too long as have I, what was offensive first becomes humorous, then it becomes monotonous, then it becomes humorous again I’ve found. It’s definitely true that when speaking to non-Christians those raised in a Christian environment or society which is mainly Christian will at times need to step outside their comfort zone and this does not always prove easy. People internalize religious beliefs and find it hard to perceive other realities may exist that don’t tally with theirs.


#218

We are in the “Non-Catholic” sub-forum, so I think we can respectfully disagree with Catholicism here. I wouldn’t do it in one of the other sub-forums, and I don’t think any other poster would, either unless it was a mistake.

I’m aware that Catholics do believe in saints. I respect your faith and find parts of your liturgy quite beautiful, but the Apostles Creed is not my creed. I’m thankful I live in a country where both of us can practice our respective faiths. Much of the world does not.


#219

I’m not, either. :wink:


#220

Yes, we’re a myopic bunch, we Christians. No question about it. Your post got me asking myself why that’s the case. Here are my thoughts, posted to the ether (when I should be getting ready for work):

Sometimes, when you love someone a lot, you get nearsided. For example - if you have a wife or husband, and somebody says something askew about them (or is perceived to have said something negative about them), you could take offense, yes? It wouldn’t necessarily be because you weren’t smart enough to understand that your anger wasn’t logical, no? After all, aren’t we all (and shouldn’t we be) very sensitive about someone we love?

Similarly, we Christians are a strange lot in some ways. We fall in love with someone. He commands us to love him first, and then love others with “agape” love. Sacrificial love. A love that makes a Samaritan pull over for a loathed rival. A love that takes a man to a terrible death for “atonement”. Unfortunately, sometimes, that love manifests itself in us humans as a scared man cutting off an ear to defend his best friend.

So, when someone speaks of Saints, they’re speaking of our brothers and sisters. When someone speaks of “Creeds”, they’re speaking of our love letters. It’s hard for us to hold our love for our family in tension with our love for our neighbors - but that’s exactly what Jesus commands us to do.

I would say that our (sometimes pejorative sounding) responses aren’t always because those of other religions are pulling us out of our “comfort zone”. (There are plenty of smart Christians too after all, wouldn’t you say? Some of us have even been to other countries and speak more than on language! (this is meant as a joke to lighten the mood a bit).

My hope and belief is that a Christian’s responses are - if they really love Jesus - driven out of love. Love for our King. Love for our family. And sometimes we draw our swords when we shouldn’t, and He tells us to stop playing the fool, and we’re thankful for His mercy and kindness.

And now I’m really late. And it’s your fault. But I forgive you. Kind of. Not really.


#221

I apologise for my heart not bleeding but I’m not offended.

A non-Christian (or a non-Catholic for that matter, I expect) who has been around CAF for any length of time (I’m coming up for 12 years next month) does learn a thing or two about poster susceptibilities and how not to be offended in turn.

While I take your point about Catholics being devoted to saints, all I’d done was to point out that you couldn’t expect Jews (the original response had been to Jewish poster) to be swayed by them (I’d even included a ‘smiley’ in the deleted one-line original - it disappeared when quoted in the response - to suggest that it wasn’t an attack, just a ‘nudge’) - Islamic scholars probably have had interesting things to say but would you accept their views as having the quality of ‘imprimatur’?

Thereby hangs a tail/tale, but that’s an entirely different conversation (of a historical nature). :wink:


#222

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