Are only Catholics destined for Heaven?


#143

Do they? I thought the church just trusted them to God’s mercy?


#144

By all means provide an authoritative quote re the destiny of those just adults who have never heard the Gospel.


#145

The Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allows us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without baptism. (CCC 1261)


#146

We are talking about just non Christian adults not unbaptised children of Christian parents before the age of reason arent we?


#147

What’s the difference?


#148

An apposite quote from Church authority that these too must receive actual sacramental baptism to reach heaven.


#149

John 3: 5 Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born through water and the Spirit.


#150

The question is whether the post Vat II Church still interprets that as necessitating a priest administering actual sacramental baptism to righteous adult non believers

That appears no longer to be the case as I understand it.


#151

No more baptism? Strange as my children were baptised only seven years ago.


#152

What is the relevance sorry?
Your children are not unbelievers.

Why would you not wish your believing children to be baptised so as to join your faith community, work together as a spiritual family, visibly witness to the world and do what they believe Jesus asks them to do?


#153

What you had said makes no sense.


#154

Your response makes no sense re explaining what makes no sense :slight_smile:.


#155

yes, because sacramental baptism is the ordinary way but their are also extraordinary ways to become a member of the Church. Such as Martyrdom.


#156

why would the Church baptize non believers?


#157

Dont ask me, I don’t see it as necessary for them to be saved.

Though Church armies once gave conquered unbelievers the choice of either baptism or the sword.


#158

But that is what the church teaches. You receive sanctifying grace when you are baptised.


#159

So when you can supply an authoritative post Vat II quote as requested rather than your own personal intuitions perhaps we can take this further.


#160

I asked you because you made the statement. I didn’t understand what you were trying to say.

forceful conversions were a product of the times and not an inherent part of Christian doctrine. They were in fact, very rare until the age of the Muslim invasions. This put ‘conversion’ into the realm of politics and not religion. A Christian King couldn’t trust a non-Christian subject if that non-Christian’s faith community was outside the city walls trying to kill you.

Hence the forced conversion of the English Catholics by Henry VIII. This was about politics not theology although it was veiled as religion.


#161

What exactly is your point?
I am observing that in the past most Catholics erroneously believed adult non believers were damned if they did not receive sacramental baptism on earth before death.

Many poorly catechised Catholics still believe that today.

Despite the Gospel of John the post Vatican Church has made it clear, it seems to me, sacramental baptism is not absolutely necessary.

If you or others believe otherwise by all means provide a post Vat II Magisterial quote.


#162

Jesus Christ in the bible is my personal intuition? No pre Vatican II is good enough for you?


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