Are OSAS kids more likely to fail at virtues?


#1

My mother is not Catholic - I am the black sheep who became a Catholic.

Today, my mom said that the teenagers at her church are acting worse than the secular kids. She said they are “living under the power of the Blood” but that they steal, swear, and get into fisitcuffs (girls that is) on the church grounds. :blush:

Now, where are the parents? I would think that mom and dad could take a closer look at their kids - a very close look.

Why is it that the parents of the Fundamentalist kids are letting their children not live as Christians?

Is it a fear of the works vs. grace concept of salvation?

Is it that once saved always saved means never having to follow the 10 Commandments?

As an idol-worshipping, papist - and glad to be one too, :thumbsup: I am probably not considered a good parent for letting my kids think that salvation is a gift that must be cherished. Catch me in line at that confessional and tell me your take on this issue.


#2

I attend and am a youth leader at a non-denominational, evangelical church. I am from a Catholic family but was never educated or confirmed. Currently trying to attend RCIA, but work schedule makes it difficult. Anyways, I have noticed the same thing. The kids at our youth service cuss, smoke, do drugs in the parking lot, fight, talk during service, and more. The sad fact is, most of their parents are no better. Modern Protestant churches exist for the sole purpose of getting people in the seats, anymore. They spend millions on sound systems, tv cameras, and games for the kids, and as a result God becomes a secondary concern.

The reason Protestants hold to their once saved, always saved belief is because it’s easy. Period. They don’t want to have to BE Christians, they prefer to ACT like Christians on Sunday for an hour or so, and maybe on Wednesday night. No matter what they say, that’s the facts. I know, I was one for many years, and I loved the idea of going to heaven no matter what. Don’t get me wrong, there are many good Protestants who really wish to serve God, but they make up maybe ten percent of them.


#3

Very interesting insight. Thanks for that. I truly believe that sola fide is a real, and ultimately fatal flaw of protestantism.

In fairness, you’ll find at least some of that in Catholic parishes but I’m sure you understand that. People are people. Satan doesn’t favor one church over the other.

David


#4

All too true. Of course not every Catholic is serious in their faith, either. But I must say that as a whole, Catholics are the most likely to follow Jesus’ COMMAND to feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc, etc, than most others. And they don’t do it selfishly. The preachers at my megachurch state that the only reason for doing those things is to “reap a harvest” of money and other “blessings” for yourself. One even went so far as to say that if you give money without expecting, nay, demanding something from God in return, then you were basically throwing your money away. Also, a friend of mine who is a waiter hates Sundays, because he says the Baptists down the road come in and are rude, loud, and the worst tippers. Kinda makes a statement about what kind of people they generally are.


#5

I am here to tell you that Catholic parishes, high schools, youth groups, CCD classes and confirmation classes are not exempt from the same thing. Had two girls fighting on the street in front of our Catholic school before CCD, over a boy. Had to call their parents to haul them away and neither has been back since. Candidates in the past few years from our program who did not come to confirmation ceremony or complete the classes due to pregnancy, pregancy of girlfriend, after effects of abortion, in rehab (several each year), in detention (several each year), in boot camp, stoned, injured or killed in gang-related violence, or suicide.

We have to call parents or issue cover-up T-shirts because of immodest or offensive clothing on a regular basis, and all teachers report offensive language. We have had to call police or parents because of children carrying weapons, children carrying drugs, and threats of violence to self or others on church property during church functions.

We have an ongoing problem with cliques which to my mind have as much potential for lasting damage as some of this other behavior. The inter-school rivalries, which sometimes become acrimonious and even violent, are a constant problem, and we deliberate plan activities to counteract these ills.

Do not get sanctimonious about comparing Catholic youth to other groups. Yes by and large we have a fine group of kids, who are proud to be Catholic and to profess and live out their faith. But every problem involving teens today will crop up in a Catholic school or parish program.


#6

I have been the Sunday School Superintendent for our Baptist Church for six years. I think that our one hundend and fifty or so kids are very well behaved. Never no problems with smoking or drugs.


#7

Maybe not at church, but I guarantee you at least some of them do those things at other places. My best friend in high school/maid of honor at my wedding, was a “good Baptist” girl who also smoked - and not just cigarettes.


#8

Modern Protestant churches exist for the sole purpose of getting people in the seats, anymore. They spend millions on sound systems, tv cameras, and games for the kids, and as a result God becomes a secondary concern.

Not true of all churches, not so at all.

Ours is filled with hypocrisy, as is any other, but far outweighing the clear corruption of many attendants is the genuine faith of so many in our youth group. I’m 13, coming out of 7th grade, and since I became a Christ Follower a little over a year ago, I’ve found so many true believers in Our Lord at my church. I also have noticed the same of Our Lady, a church I live rather close to (where I attend Mass). It’s is pure absurdity to say that rebellion and insolence in the youth is unique to Protestant churches that support OSAS, as mine does (even if I personally know it to be an absurdity and anti-Scriptural). As Martin Luther says,

“Where God would build a church, there Satan would set up a chapel.”


#9

As I said in an earlier post, all too true. But, having been around protestants most of my life, perhaps I just see it more from them. However, I have been to both Catholic churches in my town, and most of the kids there seem alot better behaved. Maybe I need to see them at school or anywhere outside the church. But it strikes me that they are so much more well behaved in church. The kids at my youth group act like they are at the mall when at church, and every week I have to ask someone to shape up or please leave so everyone else can hear the sermon.


#10

Again repeating an earlier post, of course I am aware that no one denomination is absolutely perfect. And when I say Protestant, I mean the evangelical megachurches I am used to. Or "worship centers’ as some even call themselves. The one I go to recently spent about half a million on a new sound system, and another million or so on a TV studio. They sell cd’s and dvd’s and books in the foyer, they have huge blow-up games for the kids, another two hundred thousand dollar sound system in the youth building and a bunch of video games and tv’s and a snack bar. And out of what’s left they give about fifteen percent of the parishioners’ tithes and offerings back to the community through about four once-a-year events that they hold for the less fortunate and a few dozen thousand in regular contributions to missionary groups. Not just a guess- I actually was on staff under the associate pastor who told me that. The pastor/owner of the church lives in the biggest house in town and his wife drives a Lexus. They consider it their right as holy servants of God to be “blessed” with these things. I know God wants us to have good things and prosperity, but that is kinda taking it overboard, I think. And it is dangerous in that the kids grow up thinking that Jesus died for the sole reason of giving them a free no-matter-what ticket to heaven and as much money as they can get their hands on before that.It just frustrates me.:eek:


#11

I see great parents of lots of different faiths have really bad bad kids.
I see bad parents of lots of faiths or lack of have really great kids.

I think parents are an influence, of course. I think sometimes though,

Its harder to pinpoint by “denomination” there are lukewarm in all faiths, there are lip service only people, and everything in between!

Puzzleannie’s post is going to give me nightmares for weeks now.:frowning:
I just signed my kid up for preschool. :o yes, in the Catholic School.:frowning: :o :eek:


#12

^ I know what you mean about all the wasted moolah! Our church is very large and we are actually in the midst of a new addition right now. One of the youth directors, Dave, took us one Wednesday night to the new building in its unfinished stage, and showed to us our new worship area. He stood on the stage overlooking us (we were, of course, murmuring with excitement) and said in a loud voice,

“THIS BUILDING IS SUCH A WASTE OF MONEY!”

Everyone became silent.

“This building is such a waste of money … IF we make this our new, official hang-out, and forget all about why we’re building it. This building is such a waste of money if we make this about *ourselves. *Find some friends. Get together in groups. We are praying over this place. Really praying …”

Our group stayed after the others left. We kept on praying and will continue to do so. It’s not ALWAYS such a waste … as I think you know (still I reiterate).

Communion still does occur. However, I am distressed by those “could-fit-a-stadium-inside-another-stadium-inside-the-church-sized churches” I’ve seen only on TV with charismatic pastors who have no certification other than a Bible and some theories … Those we must worry about, for how can the Eucharist be properly supplied to those attendants, how can true Communion (interaction) happen in such places? I fear …

I share your concerns in this respect.


#13

why would we assume that the Catholic school, the Catholic CCD program, the Catholic Church teaching is at fault when kids misbehave? Why would we assume that the protestant, evangelical, pentecostal, mormon, baptist or any other church or youth ministry program is at fault when their youth members misbehave? It may very well be that our CCD program or parish is failing the kids and if so I will be the first to admit it, but I think it is a huge leap to blame the denomination, its leadership, or its doctrine for the behavior of its members. Very popular passtime to criticize youth today, but if you use that logic on the misbehavior of all membership, beginning with the adults, we are going to start sounding very much like the pharisees whom Jesus condemned for doing the same things.

I would hope very much our church membership, whatever denomination, includes sinners, because those are the ones of us Jesus came to save, and those are the ones for whose sake he directed us to serve in our churches.

what I intended to warn about is the triumphalist attitude displayed in OP “our kids are holier than your kids” because it is simply not true.


#14

I think you did not understand, I agree with you 100 percent!:wink:

But I still am a mom with high hopes for my little one too.

Dont worry, I am with you on this one.


#15

Wow! Lots of opinions here. Reading about all the troubles on all sides really makes me appreciate my own kids and the kids in this area. I live in a small town with a Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal, and 4 small Baptist churches (no idea why so many small Baptist churches… different doctrines maybe???) Anyway, we have good kids and bad kids in our little town… We even have some in-between kids.

From what I see, it isn’t about how much money or what religion the family professes…however it does seem that those with no faith are a little at a disadvantage. What I do see as making a difference is parental involvement. Some of our residents don’t seem to take the time to actually raise their kids. Maybe because they are working too much or maybe because they don’t know how… any number of reasons is possible. I think it is too easy today to spend no time at all with your kids…

Want to know where they are? Give them a cell phone… Want to tell them where you are??? Give them a cell phone. Want to know when they will be home? Give them a cell phone. I am not against cell phones, in fact my kids all have them, but it isn’t a substitute for mom and dad. My kids got their cell phones this year at 17 and 15, mostly because I insisted that they never get into a situation that they needed to get a hold of me and couldn’t, and the 15 yo goes to school in another town. But I see 9 and 10 yo’s that carry them as a substitute for mom or dad knowing where they are!!! My own step dd got one for her 12th birthday from her mom!!! My kids have yet to use their allotted minutes because they aren’t running around when I’m not there.

I make sure we enforce rules in my house and in public… it’s part of the parent thing. I see kids that are rude and disrespectful to their parents in public and I shudder… Basic rules of etiquette are definitely lacking!!! My kids are no where near perfect… but I can tell you this… even when I get called to ds’s school because he failed a class or did something stupid, the person calling me ALWAYS says, “He was polite about it.” or “He told the truth.” Or something to that effect.

I worked in public and private schools several years ago. I can’t tell you the number of rude kids I saw. I had a kindergartener in the public school say F U to me! That wasn’t an uncommon thing at that school. At the private school manners were enforced and I only ever had 1 kid give me problems… and he had some serious mental problems. If you don’t teach respect and manners… don’t expect others to do it for you. If kids don’t have respect and self respect… well those are the kids we don’t think act too nice.

I don’t think it has anything to do with what religion a kid is brought up in… rather the parenting that they have received.


#16

I did not post this thread to say that Catholics are better. But I do send my kids to private, independent (of the Archdiocese and parish) Catholic schools. These schools expect at least the same, if not better manners, of my sons than I expect at home.

I was just surprised and somewhat shocked at what my mother said. It seemed to be so irrational compared to what I have known of her congregation. So, I asked - perhaps too rudely.

I did want to put forth the argument that Sola Fide could lead to this - and that some protestant faiths I have been in were so into the saved by grace through faith (the Truth even for us, Catholics) that the “works” portion seemed to be discounted - except for evangelizing.

My friends and I also try to teach our children of the great gift of confession and absolution. My younger son is quite eager to begin his next step into the fullness of our Faith.

As one who became Catholic long before I could begin to hope to defend my faith - I came because of the Real Presence. He called to me long before I understood the Eucharist. Then even when I began to understand - He called me - by name - to His banquet table. He even asked how long I would continue to deny myself recieving Him - the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. In all humility, this sinner is still amazed that He would consider me worthy of that spiritual 2X4 upside my head - but He did and all the sin and faults of my parish family falls away in the Light of Love, humbly present to mere mortals.

Please accept my apology for seeming to condemn all protestant youth groups.


#17

You can’t say that catholic children are any more well behaved at times. Look at our world and how impressionable children are. With the way things are going and the pain that is out in our world the kids, who are more incline to act out the frustration and agony that they swim through everyday at school and sometimes at home, can’t help but get bombarded by images and experiances that make them forget many well taught lessons from the church. It’s not that they think that they can sin and get away with it because they are guaranteed salvation… what kid do you know thinks that way? Haven’t you ever done something without thinking how it was going to affect your relationship with God until the act is done or at least half way there?


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