Are stories of Torah fact or fiction?


#1

Are stories of Torah fact or fiction? I mean according catholic ideolgy, are Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc real person in past?

Is this true that pope Bd. John Paul II bilieved that stories of torah are fiction?

Please give refrence, for your answer.


#2

In regards to the Genesis creation story the Catholic Church does not interpret that literally. The Jewish authors of Genesis, throughout the centuries to Rabbis today have never translated this story literally either.

The official stance of the Church is that Catholics can believe in either the Genesis Creation story OR Evolution. The two conditions placed on us by the Church being that if you choose to believe in Evolution who must believe that this was guided by the Hand of God and that God especially created the Soul for each individual.

I don’t know any Catholic who believes in the Genesis Creation story in a literal sense or as the true explanation of where mankind originated from. I’m sure there are some out there, I just don’t know any.

For Catholics believing in either Genesis or Theistic Evolution does not determine whether you go to hell or heaven. It is a non-salvific issue.

The Church teaches that Abraham was a real person. I’m not sure about Adam and Noah.

catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution


#3

The stories are analogies that have great spiritual values. So, in a sense, they are entirely true, even if made of ‘fiction.’


#4

The Church teaches that Abraham was a real person. I'm not sure about Adam and Noah.

catholic.com/tracts/adam-eve-and-evolution

I think Genesis becomes historical with Abraham. Prior, it is mythological but that does not mean mere fiction. There is a first of everything, including a man. We call him Adam or of the earth. Eve, the mother of all. There was a great flood and we call the hero of it Noah. Others name him Gilgamesh and so on. The main theme is the relationship between God and man, and the telling is perfect in every sense.


#5

We need to be very careful here, do we follow man and worship churches, or do we trust him and his word.
GOD teaches that every word in the bible in the original language is from the mouth of God. WOA that means every word is inspired by GOD and is infallible.
So there is your answer, the books of the torah are in the bible are they not, therefore they are absolutely correct and fact. hope this helps


#6

[quote="javid, post:1, topic:321820"]
Are stories of Torah fact or fiction? I mean according catholic ideolgy, are Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc real person in past?

Is this true that pope Bd. John Paul II bilieved that stories of torah are fiction?

Please give refrence, for your answer.

[/quote]

The Catholic Church firmly teaches that Adam, in the first three chapters of Genesis, is a real person who with his spouse are the first, sole, true, real human parents of humankind.

Reference: Divine Revelation


#7

As posters above have said the creation story is basically a symbolic story that as an underlying truth : that God created everything. However Adam, Noah, and Abraham ARE actual people and the Church says this. Adam is even listed as a saint in the Roman martyrology.


#8

Thanks for answers.

A liberal catholic said to me that pope Bd. John Paul II bilieved that stories of torah are fiction. Is this true?


#9

[quote="SAVINGRACE, post:2, topic:321820"]
I don't know any Catholic who believes in the Genesis Creation story in a literal sense or as the true explanation of where mankind originated from. I'm sure there are some out there, I just don't know any.

[/quote]

I know of at least one, so yeah, there's some out there.

[quote="javid, post:8, topic:321820"]
A liberal catholic said to me that pope Bd. John Paul II bilieved that stories of torah are fiction. Is this true?

[/quote]

I really don't know, but I doubt it. If I'm remembering correctly, I heard that he believed in theistic evolution / believed that theistic evolution is not incompatible with Church teaching. That doesn't necessarily mean he believed Creation was fiction though ("fiction" is made-up / imaginary stuff, not true stuff represented figuratively / symbolically like Creation would be).
And I highly doubt that he believed that the entire Torah was non-literal either... probably just the part regarding Creation.


#10

Jesus quoted and referenced the Torah, therefore by faith I believe the Torah did happen.


#11

[quote="javid, post:8, topic:321820"]
Thanks for answers.

A liberal catholic said to me that pope Bd. John Paul II bilieved that stories of torah are fiction. Is this true?

[/quote]

I would say he probably believed the 1st 11 chapters of Genesis are myth rather than fiction.

myth: A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society.

fiction: An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.

A myth is often a story used to explain a truth that is difficult to grasp. For example: where did humanity come from: Garden of Eden myth=from nature via the intervention of God.

Fiction is just something made up, like Rudyard Kiplings just so stories like "How the leopard got its spots" sff.net/people/karawynn/justso/leopard.htp


#12

[quote="Bill1940, post:4, topic:321820"]
There was a great flood and we call the hero of it Noah. Others name him Gilgamesh and so on.

[/quote]

First off, you're thinking of Utanapishtim, not Gilgamesh. Second, what's really interesting about this is that there was a news article a while ago where someone though they discovered city ruins on the bottom of the Red Sea. A great flood???


#13

[quote="Robert_Sock, post:3, topic:321820"]
The stories are analogies that have great spiritual values. So, in a sense, they are entirely true, even if made of 'fiction.'

[/quote]

All stories? Are all made of fiction?

I bet it would be extremely difficult to give the "great spiritual values" in the first three chapters of Genesis with God being a fiction.


#14

I'm curious if the people here who are either for or against a literal Adam, Noah, and Abraham believe the story of The Tower of Babel is literal or spiritual.


#15

[quote="Mike_from_NJ, post:14, topic:321820"]
I'm curious if the people here who are either for or against a literal Adam, Noah, and Abraham believe the story of The Tower of Babel is literal or spiritual.

[/quote]

I am in favor of a literal Genesis.


#16

[quote="javid, post:1, topic:321820"]
Are stories of Torah fact or fiction?

[/quote]

I think the question itself is probably flawed. In this context, "fact" seems to suggest something to be literalistically understood, while "fiction" seems to suggest something untrue. Forgive me if I misunderstood. At any rate, neither of those really applies to the opening chapters of Genesis.

The meanings intended by the authors are entirely true. They often convey these meanings, as we ourselves often do, in language that should not be interpreted literalistically (e.g. when I say "the sun rose this morning").


#17

[quote="Mike_from_NJ, post:14, topic:321820"]
I'm curious if the people here who are either for or against a literal Adam, Noah, and Abraham believe the story of The Tower of Babel is literal or spiritual.

[/quote]

Actually, I find it more spiritually rewarding (as in reaching eternal life) to believe the doctrines of the Catholic Church. :D


#18

I would strongly recommend this book as a serious scholarly reference for the historicity of the Old Testament.

Here's a link about Pope John Paul II's opinion on the scriptures. jimmyakin.com/2012/08/are-all-the-books-of-the-bible-historical.html

And finally, for a good Catholic reference for the diversity of the genres of books in the "Bible" amazon.com/God-Said-What-Introduction-Biblical/dp/0809141299/ref=la_B000APJDM6_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1350953828&sr=1-2


#19

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