Are there PRO-ABORTION Catholics?


#1

Of course I know there are in the political world and elsewhere but what about the average so-called devout Catholic. Are you one of them? How do you justify it?


#2

I once knew a devout Catholic woman who maintained that, while she would never get an abortion, it should still be available for women, especially in the case of rape. It was difficult to reason with her because her argument was based largely on emotion. She thought she was being empathic, putting herself in the other woman's shoes, imagining the horrible violation (in the case of rape).


#3

I don't think anyone who is actively "pro-abortion" can call themselves Catholic. Kind of mutually exclusive... Although I am sure there are plenty of pro-choice or wishy-washy-on-abortion people sitting in the pews on Sunday.

By the way, as a 100% pro-life Catholic, I do not think it is helpful to our cause to label people who are pro-choice as "pro abortion."


#4

This is the problem of definition. You've got all sorts of people claiming the term "Christian" or "Catholic" while simultaneously rejecting the basic core beliefs of those terms. You've got people who believe abortion is not murder, that gay sex is normal, that we can create a utopia of fairness in this life, that evil doesn't exist, that hell doesn't exist or virtually no one goes there, and on down the line. Historically, it was the Catholic church that set the definition in stone so as to eliminate all these wolves in sheep's clothing. But the church and even the protestant organizational hierarchies no longer defend these definitions with anything approaching clarity or zeal.

I've met "catholics" and "christians" who truly believe they follow Christ, yet they claim he wasn't the son of God and all the miracles in the Bible were really superstitious explanations. And they hold that they are indeed mainstream.

I'm left with the questions: What does it mean for a person to hold him or herself "Catholic" or any other religious designation if they don't hold the major tenets of that religion? What does it mean if those religions refuse to make clear what is true and defend it with vigor?

it's a madhouse.

And to answer you question directly, no. You can't be pro-choice/pro-abortion and be christian, let alone catholic.


#5

[quote="MaryHelene, post:3, topic:278651"]

By the way, as a 100% pro-life Catholic, I do not think it is helpful to our cause to label people who are pro-choice as "pro abortion."

[/quote]

Why not?. They support the right to abortion. They need to ask themselves why it bothers them to be accurately labelled as abortion supporters.


#6

[quote="whm, post:5, topic:278651"]
Why not?. They support the right to abortion. They need to ask themselves why it bothers them to be accurately labelled as abortion supporters.

[/quote]

Because very few people are pro-abortion. They support the right to abortion, as you stated. So, they could accurately be called "pro abortion rights." But only a small minority are actually in favor of abortions over pregnancies.


#7

I could live with calling them pro abortion rights. Then they have to own up to why they think it is wrong yet they still support the “right” to an abortion. They might have to actually think critically about their position (which I think most just don’t want to deal with it and Pro Choice sounds so nice, not their problem).


#8

[quote="johnnyjones, post:1, topic:278651"]
Of course I know there are in the political world and elsewhere but what about the average so-called devout Catholic. Are you one of them? How do you justify it?

[/quote]

I justify my devotion by my true moral conscience. If my conscience is rightly formed, according to the Church's teaching, then I know I'm on the right path. It never fails.

No one who supports abortion in any form can be called devout.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm


#9

[quote="MaryHelene, post:3, topic:278651"]
I don't think anyone who is actively "pro-abortion" can call themselves Catholic. Kind of mutually exclusive... Although I am sure there are plenty of pro-choice or wishy-washy-on-abortion people sitting in the pews on Sunday.

By the way, as a 100% pro-life Catholic, I do not think it is helpful to our cause to label people who are pro-choice as "pro abortion."

[/quote]

Wrong my friend, it is very important to do that. "Choice" is a cover up word. What are you choosing? Answer: to abort. Abort what? Thats when they get tangled up. If your "pro-choice, your pro-abortion.


#10

[quote="johnnyjones, post:9, topic:278651"]
Wrong my friend, it is very important to do that. "Choice" is a cover up word. What are you choosing? Answer: to abort. Abort what? Thats when they get tangled up. If your "pro-choice, your pro-abortion.

[/quote]

I don't think that believing women should be able to choose an abortion equals being in favor of abortion over pregnancy. Sorry.


#11

[quote="Leegal, post:8, topic:278651"]
I justify my devotion by my true moral conscience. If my conscience is rightly formed, according to the Church's teaching, then I know I'm on the right path. It never fails.

No one who supports abortion in any form can be called devout.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm

[/quote]

That's why I wrote so-called devout.


#12

[quote="johnnyjones, post:1, topic:278651"]
Of course I know there are in the political world and elsewhere but what about the average so-called devout Catholic. Are you one of them? How do you justify it?

[/quote]

No there are no pro-abortion Catholics because being Catholic means that you are in communion with the Catholic Church and all it teaches. If your not in complete communion with the Catholic Church and all it teaches you are only claiming to be Catholic in name and are quite likely kidding yourself, but not God.


#13

[quote="MaryHelene, post:10, topic:278651"]
I don't think that believing women should be able to choose an abortion equals being in favor of abortion over pregnancy. Sorry.

[/quote]

If you chose it, you have favored it. The reason I know that is because if the choice wasn't possible (abortion was outlawed) you would have the child. It's simple but we complicate it.


#14

[quote="johnnyjones, post:9, topic:278651"]
Wrong my friend, it is very important to do that. "Choice" is a cover up word. What are you choosing? Answer: to abort. Abort what? Thats when they get tangled up. If your "pro-choice, your pro-abortion.

[/quote]

Agree. Pro-choice is another word for pro-abortion; it just sounds "better."

It is what it is.


#15

[quote="Leegal, post:14, topic:278651"]
Agree. Pro-choice is another word for pro-abortion; it just sounds "better."

It is what it is.

[/quote]

Here Here!


#16

[quote="johnnyjones, post:13, topic:278651"]
If you chose it, you have favored it. The reason I know that is because if the choice wasn't possible (abortion was outlawed) you would have the child. It's simple but we complicate it.

[/quote]

Most people who are pro-choice have never chosen to have an abortion. Look, I am not pro-choice, pro-abortion or any of it. I am pro-life - meaning I ALWAYS choose life over death. Very few people are pro-abortion -ALWAYS choosing abortion over life.


#17

Does it feel good to judge other people? Until you win your battle a woman has the right to choose when and where she will or will not reproduce. When and if you do outlaw it they will just go to underground witch doctors and self mutilate. That should make you high and mighty Catholics happy. I know it won't make Jesus happy. Cast the first stone sinner!


#18

[quote="johnnyjones, post:13, topic:278651"]
The reason I know that is because if the choice wasn't possible (abortion was outlawed) you would have the child.

[/quote]

Have you ever spoken with women who faced unplanned pregnancies in the years before abortion was legal? Choice has always been possible. Not every unplanned pregnancy resulted in a live birth before Roe v. Wade.


#19

[quote="rturner76, post:17, topic:278651"]
Does it feel good to judge other people? Until you win your battle a woman has the right to choose when and where she will or will not reproduce. When and if you do outlaw it they will just go to underground witch doctors and self mutilate. That should make you high and mighty Catholics happy. I know it won't make Jesus happy. Cast the first stone sinner!

[/quote]

Your right, people should not have judged the Nazi's either I mean were all sinners right? Who are we to step in and say you shouldn't be killing people. They worded it as "making a pure race" which of course sounds a lot better than exterminating people they don't like and don't want around.

You kind of did the same thing there. "Right to choose whether she will reproduce" sounds a lot better than "right to have her child's head crushed in the womb". Depersonalizing the act is old trick.

And if your thinking comparing what happened in Germany to abortion is absurd your right. Millions more have died thanks to abortion and its accepted on a much wider scale than what was happening in Germany was. Its offensive to the horror of abortion to compare it to something as small as what happened in Nazi Germany. Approx. 42 million deaths a year world-wide due to abortion compared to a total of 6 million Jewish people killed under the Nazi's.


#20

Godwin’s Law before post #20!


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