Are these people in heaven?

Constantine the Great- I heard that he is venerated as a saint in the Eastern Catholic Churches. But how? I just can’t understand it. I mean, sure he made Christianity as legal and all, but he waged WARS, conquered people, bringing death and destruction. This is a great evil, which a saint cannot afford.
Copyed from wikipedia:
However, Constantine certainly did not patronize Christianity alone. After gaining victory in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge (312), a triumphal arch—the Arch of Constantine—was built (315) to celebrate his triumph. The arch is decorated with images of the goddess Victoria. At the time of its dedication, sacrifices to gods like Apollo, Diana, and Hercules were made. Absent from the Arch are any depictions of Christian symbolism.
So in reallity, he was really a Christian and Pagan. He made sacrifices to Pagan gods and he thanked Jesus. This is the greatest evil there is. So he did two great evils. So great, that they automatecly exclude you from being a saint. So how can the Eastern Churches regard him as a saint?

Charlemagne: He waged wars, killed many innocent people because they didn’t convert to Christianity, he did all those evils. How can some German churches regard him as blessed?

There is no evil so great as to prevent someone from being a Saint. A saint is simply someone who is in Heaven. To be in Heaven we have to die in a state of grace. No matter what sins (or how many) we commit we can always return to a state of grace through repentance. No sin is more powerful than the salvific death of Christ.

Constantine the Great is a saint in our church as well.

You seem to make very general statements and judgements about a number of things in the past like this and your thread about the crusades. First of all, you can’t look back and make a judgments about anyone on if they are or are not in heaven and who is and isn’t should always be left in God’s hands and His final judgements. It isn’t up to us. Likewise, you make very vague and somewhat inaccurate comments about past history and seem to want to hold people in the past to some preconceived ideas about war and just war and are not willing to look at what happen or what people did or didn’t do and place them in their era or time. You shouldn’t look back in history and make assessments using today’s ideas, standards etc. You should also study history using reliable Catholic sources and not through the lens of political correctness. Just because Charlemagne waged war doesn’t make him evil. He likewise united or tried to parts of Europe. He likewise lead in reform in education, wanting people to be able to read. You have made a number of comments about war on this and other threads. I would study the concept of just war propose by St. Thomas Aquinas and others before trying to judge the past.

We also must remember that a formal process for canonization wasn’t established until around 1000 AD. Prior to that, Saints were either determined to be saints through martyrdom or by popular acclaim.

I don’t know if they are saints but, tell you what Tim, when I get to heaven I will find out if they are there. If they aren’t there, you can find out. :dancing:

Those acts do not exclude one from a saintly life.

For example, St. Joan of Arc waged war, as did St. Louis of France.

Moses himself conquered Caanan. God Himself commanded such conquest at times, so I would be hesitant of accusing God of committing evil

And we know that Moses is a Saint, as he appeared in Glory during the Transfiguration.

So I believe that your premise is in error.

Aside from the fact that the Latin Church also has military saints (George, Joan of Arc) Christians, by nature, are not pacifists hence why people like Augustine and Aquinas can postulate theologoumena about waging “just wars.”

Anyway, we should not be particularly interested in discerning who is in heaven. That is up to the will of God - which the Church from time to time might ascertain.

You seem to make very general statements and judgements about a number of things in the past like this and your thread about the crusades. First of all, you can’t look back and make a judgments about anyone on if they are or are not in heaven and who is and isn’t should always be left in God’s hands and His final judgements. It isn’t up to us. Likewise, you make very vague and somewhat inaccurate comments about past history and seem to want to hold people in the past to some preconceived ideas about war and just war and are not willing to look at what happen or what people did or didn’t do and place them in their era or time. You shouldn’t look back in history and make assessments using today’s ideas, standards etc. You should also study history using reliable Catholic sources and not through the lens of political correctness. Just because Charlemagne waged war doesn’t make him evil. He likewise united or tried to parts of Europe. He likewise lead in reform in education, wanting people to be able to read. You have made a number of comments about war on this and other threads. I would study the concept of just war propose by St. Thomas Aquinas and others before trying to judge the past.

I am asking this questions because i don’t know, and i wish to know. I couldn’t understand how some people like Constanine could be saints if they waged wars, conquered,… I know what criterias are for a just war but i don’t think neither Constantine nor Charlemagne fullfiled that criterias. We all know what those criterias were. Charlemagne and Constantine conquered for bigger political control. Why else would Charlemagne with no just reason attack the saxons? I read history but just find some doubt wheter these people could really be ‘good’?

Those acts do not exclude one from a saintly life.

For example, St. Joan of Arc waged war, as did St. Louis of France.

Moses himself conquered Caanan. God Himself commanded such conquest at times, so I would be hesitant of accusing God of committing evil

And we know that Moses is a Saint, as he appeared in Glory during the Transfiguration.

So I believe that your premise is in error.

I know im in error, i know this because the Church is infallible. The thing is that i don’t understand how the crusades(all of them including against pagans, muslims,…), wars of Charlemagne, wars of Constanine,… were just war if they don’t fulfill the criteria for just war in the cahtecism. I want to reason all these, im not arguing agaisnt the Church, i just want to reasonably explain how is all this just.

We do not speculate on the state of a soul.

CLOSED

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