Are These Sexist Quotes By Catholic Saints Real?


#1

picked these up on accident online:

“Among all savage beasts, none is found so harmful as woman.” ~St. John Chrysostom

“Any woman who acts in such a way that she cannot give birth to as many children as she is capable of, makes herself guilty of that many murders.” ~St. Augustine

“Do you know that each of your women is an Eve? The sentence of God - on this sex of yours - lives in this age; the guilt must necessarily live, too. You are the gate of Hell, you are the temptress of the forbidden tree; you are the first deserter of the divine law.” ~Tertullian

“Let us set our women folk on the road to goodness by teaching them to display submissiveness.” “Every woman should be overwhelmed with shame at the thought that she is a woman.” ~St. Clement of Alexandria

The website had another tale. Is this true also?
At the Council of Macon in 585 A.D., Bishops voted if women have immortal souls. The measure passed by one vote only.

Thanks.


#2

Please post the link to the website. Thank you.


#3

I did a search - not sure if this is the same one - but has all the same stuff.

forhealing.org/women.html


#4

That’s the one.


#5

Firstly where is your evidence of the Council of Macon? It’s your job to bring the evidence and cite the source you got this from - ie to name the website - if you say anything like this.

And are all the saints supposed to be infallible all of a sudden? Not last time I checked they weren’t. So being fallible, they sometimes say stupid things!


#6

Gets more interesting here.

St. Thomas Aquinas, the well-known 13th-century Italian theologian, said: “Woman is defective and accidental… and misbegotten … a male gone awry … the result of some weakness in the (father’s) generative power.”

Tertullian, the founder of Western theology, said in A.D. 22: “Woman is a temple built over a sewer, the gateway to the devil. Woman, you are the devil’s doorway. You should always go in mourning and in rags.”

workshop3.freeuk.com/MegBowmanQuotations.htm


#7

Also, so far I’ve begun to answer my own question here:
tektonics.org/af/bogusq.html


#8

Again, no proof that St Thomas said anything of the kind - the quote could have been made up out of thin air. And if he did? Again, he’s not infallible, and every human being alive has said things that are equally stupid, if they say they haven’t they’re liars.


#9

It was a VHS tape on the history of sexism that I watched at work. But it had no citation, hence my query here.

Indeed, but when faced with the quotes being real versus being fake, wouldn’t you rather the quotes be fake?


#10

I’d be very wary of anything that had no citation. Of course, I haven’t always followed that advice myself, but I try to make it a general rule.


#11

Surely these are things that you can research on your own. And to be honest, since I don’t worship the saints, I don’t care if they occasionally share in the common human trait of saying wrong or silly things. We all do.


#12

The Catholic Church has had 21 ecumenical (churchwide) councils, none of which was the “Council of Macon.” That would mean they were referring to a local council, and I can’t imagine a local council addressing an issue like “do women have souls.” Sounds absurd.


#13

See post #7, where he found a site that debunks the false quotes:

tektonics.org/af/bogusq.html


#14

Council of Macon story debunked:

leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9704/opinion/nolan.html


#15

I take it with a grain of salt. Has little meaning to me. Glad to be living in this day and time. Thank you suffregettes…and I’m glad I had the opportunity to read the Feminine Mystique.

You’ve come a long way baby!:thumbsup:


#16

With thanks to Meg Bowman, a San Jose, California sociologist, who has created many theatrical productions for
feminists and humanist groups
. The quotations above are from one of her productions called, Why We Burn: Sexism Exorcised.

The above is from the link “for healing”, nough said!

Keep in mind that societies back then were not the same as our society is today. I have a book that I haven’t gotten to yet but intend to eventually. It’s by Regine Pernoud “Women In The Days Of The Cathedrals.” From the little I have read in the book women back then had more rights than most of us are aware of. Needless to say I’m leery of links like that.

Also at the bottom of the link in the “about” section.

Jan Luckingham Fable has worked as a psychotherapist for more than 20 years. She has a master’s degree in counseling and is a Connecticut licensed substance abuse counselor. Her primary training is in Bioenergetic Analysis. She also has extensive training in the treatment of dissociative disorders and trauma survivors and in using of altered states of consciousness in healing. She has completed Level I and Level II training in Thought Field Therapy. Individual and couple counseling; coaching, support therapy for people who are in twelve step recovery programs, and intervention services are available. In addition to the dialogue of traditional psychotherapy, Jan uses tools such as body and breath work,Thought Field Therapy,** Reiki**, imagery, visualization, meditation, art and movement in her work. More about Jan Fable’s training and experience.

The bolded I would have concerns about. I agree with LilyM, St Augustine did not become a saint until AFTER he died.

I clicked on the home page and they had a link to “Helpful Links” which lead me to a list of more links. One of these was spirituality. Here is what is on that list.

Spirituality

If you’ve never experienced the labyrinth, or if you want to do it again, something wonderful awaits you at the Connecticut Labyrinth Project.
American Buddhist teacher Charlotte Joko Beck provides some suggestions on practice to help students of Buddhism.
What is the Eight Fold Path of Buddhism?
Sacred Space is a meditation site maintained by the Irish Jesuits. Visit when you have about 10 minutes to give to it.
Writings on Jewish mysticism in the Kabbalah: here is an explanation of the Sefirot, or the Ten Qualities of God.
The Awakened Woman website "was created in 1999 as an offering to the goddess - a forum for the voices of women committed to freedom, justice and truth throughout the world."
Voice of the Faithful is an national organization that had its roots in Massachusetts as a response to the horror of parishioners about the way pedophiles had been dealt with by the hierarchy in the Roman Catholic Church. Its slogan is "Keep the Faith, Change the Church."
The Worldwide Online Meditation Center is a user-friendly site, created to provide clear, straight-forward meditation instruction to people anywhere on the planet. If you are just learning to meditate, you’ll find everything necessary to get started quickly and easily. If you are already practicing meditation, you may discover new methods to deepen your practice.

Like I said “nough” said!


#17

Thanks. Some people actually bother to read what I write.


#18

One also has to consider what certain authors said about men. Usually it is every bit as unflattering. Also, Teurtullian had a heretical phase, how do we know it is not from that?


#19

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