Are we Christ?


#1

Why does the Catholic church teach that we have become Christ himself?


#2

Care to be more specific? If it’s a prayer you’re referring to, it would be nice to cite it.


#3

Hi homer-- Why don’t you site a specific official statement of the Church on this and we can go from there? :slight_smile:


#4

“Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ.” Pg. 210, #795


#5

[quote=homer]Why does the Catholic church teach that we have become Christ himself?
[/quote]

If we are members opf the body of Christ then to the world we are christ (lower case **c **on purpose) is not that we have to be christ but by vistue of our baptism we are.


#6

Here is homer’s “official” Catholic document:

chick.com/reading/books/160/160_33.asp

Yes, folks, its from the great liar Jack Chick of all people.

(Wonders why I have to keep following homer around providing links to his latest anti-catholic garbage posts.)

Cite your references homer…unless you are too embarassed to do so?


#7

Here is the full text of the catechism #795
#795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the “whole Christ” (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:
Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God’s grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have becaome Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man…The fullness of Christ then is the head and the membvers. But what does "head and members"mean? Christ and the Church.

Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.

Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.

A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: “ABout Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know theyre just one thing, and we shouldnt complicate the matter.”


#8

Here is the reference that homer and his ilk are twisting to slander the Church…and subsequently, Christ Himself…

Christ and his Church thus together make up the “whole Christ” (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does "head and members" mean? Christ and the Church.
Our redeemer has shown himself to be one person with the holy Church whom he has taken to himself.
Head and members form as it were one and the same mystical person.
A reply of St. Joan of Arc to her judges sums up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer: "About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter."

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/795.htm

It is refering to the Church as the Body of Christ, as the Bible itself says.

Try again homer…or better yet, don’t…you are proving yourself to either be very gullible or very deceitful.


#9

To me is it is simply another way of saying I am the vine you are the branches. It is all one plant.

God Bless


#10

[quote=MariaG]To me is it is simply another way of saying I am the vine you are the branches. It is all one plant.

God Bless
[/quote]

Yep, it is simply saying we are the mystical body of Christ.

homer would do well to stop trying to make “these little ones stumble” that believe in Christ AND His Church.


#11

Hi homer- Thanks for providing a citation from the Catechism.

Here the Catechism is quoting St Augustine. To put it in context, here is the whole qoute:

*Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God’s grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man. . . . The fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does “head and members” mean? Christ and the Church. *

To put it in further context, this section of the CCC (starting at Section 787 ) is talking about how the Church is the body of Christ, a very biblical concept if you look at, for example, Galatians 1:18 and 1 Cor 12:12-27:

**[12] For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body – Jews or Greeks, slaves or free – and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
[14] For the body does not consist of one member but of many.
[15] If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.
[16] And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.
[17] If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?
[18] But as it is, God arranged the organs in the body, each one of them, as he chose.
[19] If all were a single organ, where would the body be?
[20] As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
[21] The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
[22] On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable,
[23] and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty,
[24] which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part,
[25] that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
[26] If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
[27] Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. **

Hope this helps. God bless. :slight_smile:


#12

Homer,

I hope this example shows you that at least in this one case, the people who you are getting the information from are misleading people about the Catholic church not by lies, but half truths. (Or in this case, about 1/20 of the truth.) By taking it out of context without the full explantion given by the church, it becomes a lie. I hope that maybe you (or maybe someone else) can at least look for a credible source for your information instead of a group that chooses to only present a portion of the truth, so in effect, present a lie.

God Bless


#13

Homer, please read the quote in the context of all of paragraphs 787-796 of the Catechism, here:

THE CHURCH - BODY OF CHRIST

Justin


#14

Isn’t this just another person taking things out of context to "prove’ or “disprove” a point. Many fundamentalists use this ruse. This is why we have to read and study the bible so we are not swayed by these statements.

Many are repeating what they have heard from the pulpit so don’t be too harsh.

If you read the daily readings from Mass (or better yet go and listen to them) you will have at least heard or read most of the bible in 3 years

blessings


#15

To say we are Christ is a little far fetched. We are Christlike and we are to be representatives of Christ. We are the body of Christ as christians and Jesus is the Head. I think that was satans problem ,he wanted to be God,but look what happened to him. Sometimes we say things that are not put into proper context. :thumbsup: P/s There is only one who is called the CHRIST.


#16

It seems that Homer and a few other when error is pointed out to them they run to another thread. I hope if you look again Homer to see that it most surly is not Christ like to misrepensent someone else’s words and that is what you and your sources are doing with the Church. We will tell you all she teaches but you have to be willing to see truth, and what you are reading from these others is not truth, but a twisting of the truth. Now I ask you does that sound like something of God?


#17

If homer is simply ignorant then he wouldn’t run away when exposed, just to start new threads. He would admit that he made a mistake and try to learn. Instead we see him fleeing any thread where he is corrected and start a new thread consisting entirely of a cut-and-paste session from an anti-catholic site like chick.com or catholicconcerns.com

That is why I am “harsh” on him. If he was being geniune, I would be much gentler.


#18

The real enemy of these is the liar himself, the devil. I guess Homer should realize this that he is being used to spread these lies. Wake up and :banghead: yourself.

:blessyou:

Pio


#19

[quote=SPOKENWORD]To say we are Christ is a little far fetched. We are Christlike and we are to be representatives of Christ. We are the body of Christ as christians and Jesus is the Head. I think that was satans problem ,he wanted to be God,but look what happened to him. Sometimes we say things that are not put into proper context. :thumbsup: P/s There is only one who is called the CHRIST.
[/quote]

John 15:5

5 I am the vine: you the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

In the parable of the vine and the branches, Jesus does not say that he is the vine stem and we are the vine branches, he says he is the vine and we are the branches. The branches are as much a part of the vine as the branches of a tree are part of the tree. We are incorporated into Christ.

2 Peter 1:3-4

3 **As all things of his divine power which appertain to life and godliness are given us ** through the knowledge of him who hath called us by his own proper glory and virtue.

4 By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: **that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: ** flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world.

Think to what degree God wishes to share Himself with us. We are to be made participants in the divine nature, to the extent that the divine life may be communicated to creatures.

Yours in Christ,
Justin


#20

[quote=1962Missal]John 15:5
In the parable of the vine and the branches, Jesus does not say that he is the vine stem and we are the vine branches, he says he is the vine and we are the branches. The branches are as much a part of the vine as the branches of a tree are part of the tree. We are incorporated into Christ.

2 Peter 1:3-4Think to what degree God wishes to share Himself with us. We are to be made participants in the divine nature, to the extent that the divine life may be communicated to creatures.

Yours in Christ,
Justin
[/quote]

Justin, I agree Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. We as christians are grafted into the vine,and then we become part of the vine. A branch does not make us a vine.,for we cannot survive without the vine. Just like christians are part of the Body Of Christ. Without the Head we cannot survive. We are not Christ,just a part of Him. :thumbsup:


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