Are Women the “Gatekeepers” in Sexual Matters?


#1

Cf. This article:

Premarital sex? A losing proposition - CatholicMom.com

Any comments?

I recall a post here when this was said and women were up in arms.


#2

Wow, very insightful. I might actually purchase this.

Are the women gatekeepers, intrinsically so, but after being the victims of the contraceptive mentality fir far too long what can be expected of them anymore. Not to mention that men are becoming such animals that most of them don't need simply gatekeeping, they need to be chained down and caged in.hi men :)

I don't think I know a single girl/ woman who didn't do things she didn't like just to please a guy and who doesn't have major regrets as a result of the sexual encounters she was in.

As the article states, for the most part, men just don't care.

I do hope one day women wake up and realize that more sex doesn't make the guy stick around and they will revert to the traditional values in courting.


#3

So, we men need to be chained down and caged in, eh?! :hmmm:

Well, you’re probably right! Once upon a time a part of “manliness” was persistence. Persistence in the face of adversity throughout life and persistence in the pursuit of a pretty girl. Once upon a time a girl knew a man’s intentions from the fact of his persistence. Once upon a time that persistence was done with good manners, grace and a respect for the pretty girl, who was the object of his amorous desires. Just as you described it, it was called ‘courtship’. So what happened?

The sexual revolution of the 1960s and 1970s is what happened. Weren’t women told to take control of their bodies, which were theirs to do with as they pleased? Didn’t the women’s lib leaders advocate sexual freedom, just as they percieved men as having sexual freedom? Well, of course, men have had a field day ever since. But guess what? Men have been hurt by it all too. As you say, sex wont make a man hang around. It’s just a ten minute exercise in feeling good and no emotional attachment develops through it. However, over time, it does affect men’s emotions. Women, of course, are used up and abandoned. What no-one seemed to realise is that over time it all does indeed get to a man’s emotions. Those emotions are supposed to develop because of the courtship, but without it, if he gets the sex too easily, that emotional development is way slower and never as deep. That’s just the way it is. Men do care, but they learn the hard way like women do.

The sexual revolution conned and fooled both men and women. Both men and women have been hurt and are still getting hurt. Considering how women have the keys to the “safe”, I think it’s high time they learned to lock it up again and teach men, once again, that the woman is more than just a sex object.Unfortunately, all the ‘liberation’ has done is to objectify women as sex objects, who themselves are expected to dress with as much of their goods on display as the top models and movie stars show every time they step out. The ‘price’ of sex has plummeted way too much. Girls, bring back the mystery, the mastery and raise the price a whole lot higher than it is now. If a man is prepared to pay the high price, unshackle him and hand him the keys to the safe! :D.


#4

Men who sexually pressure women need to be chained down and caged in. However, men who kept their purity and seek a partner with similar history (i.e. seek a woman with no history of sexual immorality) need to be stoned to death, quartered, or burned alive. The former offense (sexually pressuring a woman) may be bad, but the latter one (a man not wanting to date/marry a woman with a history of sexual immorality) is incomparably worse! :D

In addition, if any women kept their sexual purities and married as virgins, or lived their whole lives and died as never married virgins, these women are also guilty and should be subjected to a witch-hunt where other folks (specifically other posters on CAF Family Life) will propose that said virgins might have engaged in heavy petting or masturbation.

/just HALF-kidding ;)

that's what reading too many threads on CAF Family Life did to me... :o :p


#5

I don't get the whole thing.

I really don't.

I remember once , a long time ago, I hoped for love , I hoped for marriage, I hoped for sex.

A long time ago everything but the love part got dropped.

About 15 years ago I narrowed it down to I would be happy , satisfied, if one person wrote me half a page once a month, or once every other month, and just pretended to care.

I've lost faith in that little too.

It all kind of reminds me of how Bolsheviks used to sit around scratching their heads and asking , " How come communist economics never seems to work no matter how many people we screw over ? " ( of course they didn't frame it in that context, but that's what they meant. )

It reminds me of a defense I read once of the celibate priesthood ; it pointed out that a substantial portion of the population lives most of their lives, or all of their lives, whether they like it or not, celibately ANYWAY.


#6

It doesn't absolve men of responsibility in any way, but of course women are the gatekeepers, because it is women you bare the long term consequences of sexual activity - they get pregnant !

I believe that all the virtues we call "feminine", distinct dress, modesty, submissiveness, chastity etc stem from this basic fact. Feminists would say we are oppressed by the fear of pregnancy and mens wish to repress our sexuality to ensure fatherhood. But I would say we are made like that so as to ensure we attract a single mate who will respect, love and care for us in the long term to allow us to raise children etc.

That's why I'm personally convinced that contraception and in particular female contraception (the pill in particular) is particularly pernicious, it's not just the health issues (which to be honest I think are over egged) it's an attack on our femininity. Find me a feminist who disagrees with that !


#7

[quote="1inICXC, post:2, topic:247894"]
..Not to mention that men are becoming such animals that most of them don't need simply gatekeeping, they need to be chained down and caged in.hi men :)

[/quote]

Male bashing is really uncalled for. If these remarked were directed at women there would be no tolerance. It's not funny and its not cute.

When women learn to respect themselves and not value themselves on their PERCEIVED attractiveness to men, the world will be a better place. When men learn to control their urges rather than celebrate them, the world will be a better place. Until then, neither gender can claim the high ground.


#8

I have to admit, this thread reminded me of the whole Gatekeeper and Keymaster thing from Ghostbusters :D


#9

[quote="gatewood1988, post:8, topic:247894"]
I have to admit, this thread reminded me of the whole Gatekeeper and Keymaster thing from Ghostbusters :D

[/quote]

:D:D


#10

This. Also as a woman who has seen the worst in both genders, I dont like the idea of putting either gender (especially women) on a pedestal.


#11

Yes, women are the Gatekeepers.

God said "be fruitful and multiply" and told us several times to spread and increase our numbers. He created men to be the intiatiors (primarily anyway), this was to be sure the numbers increased as he wished. Apparently, he still wants us to multiply because he has neither made us sterile or less persistent.

OTOH, he made women the regulators in that they know they will be the ones carrying the baby, pregnancy can be dangerous and is painful, and that they could be left alone with the child if they do not pick a good mate.

The only thing that has changed since the beginning of time is the morality of sex, both men and women failing terribly in this area.


#12

Haha, women are the gatekeepers???

This was definitely not the case in mine and my husband’s relationship before we got married. We succeeded in being virgins when we married, but it took effort on BOTH our parts to refuse temptation. Sometimes he would have moments of weakness and I’d carry us both through that, and sometimes I would have moments of weakness and he’d help carry us both through that.

It’s not anyone’s responsibility more than the others’, and to suggest that the majority of the burden must lie on the woman is both unfair and dangerous. Any man can read that and think “oh ok, I’ll just leave it up to HER to keep us straight. No effort needed on my part!”


#13

[quote="Barish, post:7, topic:247894"]
Male bashing is really uncalled for. If these remarked were directed at women there would be no tolerance. It's not funny and its not cute.

When women learn to respect themselves and not value themselves on their PERCEIVED attractiveness to men, the world will be a better place. When men learn to control their urges rather than celebrate them, the world will be a better place. Until then, neither gender can claim the high ground.

[/quote]

YES


#14

[quote="Debora123, post:12, topic:247894"]
Haha, women are the gatekeepers???

This was definitely not the case in mine and my husband's relationship before we got married. We succeeded in being virgins when we married, but it took effort on BOTH our parts to refuse temptation. Sometimes he would have moments of weakness and I'd carry us both through that, and sometimes I would have moments of weakness and he'd help carry us both through that.

It's not anyone's responsibility more than the others', and to suggest that the majority of the burden must lie on the woman is both unfair and dangerous. Any man can read that and think "oh ok, I'll just leave it up to HER to keep us straight. No effort needed on my part!"

[/quote]

This is amazing testimony Debora. I congratulate you and your husband, and this coming from soneone who does not agree with you on much regarding the teaching of our Lord and his Church on sexuality. This post is spot on.

-Tim-


#15

I agree. I think the nature of the gatekeeping is different for men and women. I tend to think that men have a harder time with it than women but that’s not always the case. The motivation to “keep the gates” is a morals and religion. If neither are present men will be lest restrained than women, in general. I think it’s because an immoral man will not worry if a pregnancy will result and isn’t likely going to be around when it is born where as a woman (moral or not) is still likely to worry about becomming pregnant. Of course, you toss in “the pill” and condoms and then you have a complete lack of morals and few concequences.


#16

[quote="Barish, post:7, topic:247894"]
Male bashing is really uncalled for. If these remarked were directed at women there would be no tolerance. It's not funny and its not cute.

When women learn to respect themselves and not value themselves on their PERCEIVED attractiveness to men, the world will be a better place. When men learn to control their urges rather than celebrate them, the world will be a better place. Until then, neither gender can claim the high ground.

[/quote]

[quote="JaneGrey, post:10, topic:247894"]
This. Also as a woman who has seen the worst in both genders, I dont like the idea of putting either gender (especially women) on a pedestal.

[/quote]

[quote="Debora123, post:12, topic:247894"]
Haha, women are the gatekeepers???

This was definitely not the case in mine and my husband's relationship before we got married. We succeeded in being virgins when we married, but it took effort on BOTH our parts to refuse temptation. Sometimes he would have moments of weakness and I'd carry us both through that, and sometimes I would have moments of weakness and he'd help carry us both through that.

It's not anyone's responsibility more than the others', and to suggest that the majority of the burden must lie on the woman is both unfair and dangerous. Any man can read that and think "oh ok, I'll just leave it up to HER to keep us straight. No effort needed on my part!"

[/quote]

I completely agree with this train of thought. When we identify women as the gatekeeper, I think it tends to assume that the man will be indecent and that the woman is largely responsible for allowing all sexual sin. This gatekeeper notion is far too one-sided. Men and women alike must work together to guard each other's purity. If it is only one or the other person doing so, the relationship is doomed to failure.

However, I don't think that those talking about ''gatekeeper'' women all subscribe to the opposite notion.


#17

I have a different feminist mentality - I think women should have the power to have an equal voice economically, educationally, as leaders in their home and certainly sexually. But I think recent political movements to accomplish this got a lot of it wrong.

Instead of being able to get wages on parity with male peers when we must work, we've created a society in which both partners must work just to get buy - one salary doesn't do it any more. We needed the equality as there are unmarried, widowed and abandoned/divorced/annuled women who should be paid fairly. In my mother's generation, they found a great happy medium - moms stayed home until the kids were largely grown, worked part time when the kids got into high school, and worked full-time to put the kids through college - then retired with their husbands. Now we start back working 6 weeks after delivery of our newborns.

Same with sexual parity. There remain many countries where men dictate sexuality - even where they force daughters to marry their rapists, or even kill the daughter for having been raped. Our goal should have been for either partner to be able to say "no" and be safe and respected in so doing. Unfortunately, too many women decided that the only way to get sexual power was to initiate or offer sex, to have multiple partners like men are prone to doing and so on. We inadvertantly gave our power away in so doing.

It's unfortunate because while we need choices as women, and power, we've given up the choice and power in many ways to remain celibate outside of a committed marriage, and many other powers and choices such as staying home to care for our children. Today, women have to defend doing either - where's the feministic thread in that new reality?


#18

Tim,

I appreciate the kind post. I’m sure we do agree on a lot more than we realize. :thumbsup:

With the exception of lingerie (lol!) and certain forms of ABC, we’re probably on the same page with just about anything else. :slight_smile:


#19

[quote="rusty20, post:16, topic:247894"]
I completely agree with this train of thought. When we identify women as the gatekeeper, I think it tends to assume that the man will be indecent and that the woman is largely responsible for allowing all sexual sin. This gatekeeper notion is far too one-sided. Men and women alike must work together to guard each other's purity. If it is only one or the other person doing so, the relationship is doomed to failure.

However, I don't think that those talking about ''gatekeeper'' women all subscribe to the opposite notion.

[/quote]

This article seems to lay all personal responsibility on women....that I think is wrong. The man is supposed to be the leader of the household....and the moral and spiritual leader as well. I've seen too many woman take on these roles. I'm not male bashing here. I know many great guys who I believe live a moral christian life. They have stepped up to the plate and taken on the leadership role. Sadly there just isn't as many as there should be. Also for any guy who thinks living a good moral life is any easier for women is just kidding himself. People need to take on the personal responsibility to control themselves as long as they keep playing the blame game the problem will just continue.


#20

I do think women are (or should be) the gatekeepers. Unfortunately, women, as a whole, set the standard. If women, as a whole, would go back to appreciating virtuosity, there would be no pressure for premarital sex or inappropriate pre-marital activity. Right now, it's hard to find a mate who has respect for any kind of traditional morality. Nowadays, if you don't "put out" somene else will. So not only are women, and young girls, dealing with pressure to please their man/boyfriends, but they are giving in to pressure due to the competition. However, women are enjoying having sex, and enjoying having sex without ramifications.

I don't think we'll ever go back to the time where traditional morals are valued - because those standards have changed, and frankly, that's the way the majority like it.


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