Are you willing to kill for your faith?

I was worried that if I said “Are you willing to fight for your faith?”, everyone would read that and assume I was talking about metaphorical fighting (protesting, hunger strikes, etc.). I wanted to be clear that I am talking about literal, violent fighting.

And to answer the question, yes I would be willing to literally fight. If I was alive during the 1920s I would have headed down to Mexico to join the resistance fighters, and I wouldn’t have stopped until President Calles was swinging from a rope or standing before a firing squad (normally I oppose Capitol Punishment, but I make an exception for War Criminals and Mass-Murderers).

Just curious.

Have you heard or read about the Papal Zouaves?

Still, in such a scenario we wouldn’t be “killing **for **your faith.” We’d be fighting against oppression, as many did in WWII against Nazi oppression. And it doesn’t necessarily mean the direct, deliberate killing of people, either. There are many ways to oppose oppression. War is merely one of them. And even in a war, the soldier isn’t aiming at people with the major intent of killing, but of eliminating the enemy who is oppressing and killing others or fighting for a government that is doing that. The Church teaches that defensive war is justified, which is what you described. Catholicism is not a pacifist religion.

And to answer the question, yes I would be willing to literally fight. If I was alive during the 1920s I would have headed down to Mexico to join the resistance fighters, and I wouldn’t have stopped until President Calles was swinging from a rope or standing before a firing squad (normally I oppose Capitol Punishment, but I make an exception for War Criminals and Mass-Murderers).

That would have been fine, but what about unjust laws that oppress us right where we live, right now? We need to be vigilant to maintain our freedoms or they will be taken away from us. And the best ways to do that is through prayer and performing our rightful duties/privileges as citizens of our country.

You’re aware this is all happening today? Christians are persecuted in the middle East, China, North Korea, Indonesia and other countries. Many die for their faith every year as Christianity is illegal, especially for those who were once of other faiths. Look up Open Doors, a Christian organisation devoted to the persecuted church.

Hoosier Daddy;13567686] Are you being judgemental of every soldier who has ever fought?

Not at all dear Hoosier Daddy. If I was I would also be criticising the thirty one states in the USA that have capital punishment in their judicial systems.

It’s a case of misinterpretation, i.e. "Thou shalt not murder"

  [deathpenaltyinfo.org/states-and-without-death-penalty](http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/states-and-without-death-penalty)

Protector.

No.

I would not be willing to kill for anything. I would protest, use hunger strikes, even engage in the destruction of arm used to fight the war - but I am a pacifist. While I believe in the idea of a just war, in theory, I’m not entire sure that any modern war can be just.

Even in hypothetical scenario of a anti-religious dictator that made it illegal to be Catholic, I’m pretty sure that the “noble Catholic resistance” would be making not so righteous bedfellows - and do some rather awful thing. The IRA was involve with the PLO and the FARC. It isn’t impossible to believe that a revolutionary Catholic sect today might side with an anti-Western Islamic sect (since not every radical Islamic sect hates Christianity, was much was what the perceive was Western imperialism) or even South American socialist/communist sect. War, especially guerrilla wars, tend to have people thinking that the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

I’d sign up. Who wouldn’t fight for freedom?

War or the taking of life is justifiable to defend innocent life, but one can never kill for the faith, only die for it.

If there was an existing group in my area I could join up with, then yes. If I had to take the initiative myself and find like minded people, I don’t think I’d have the ability to do that. The commandment against killing is not absolute and the Church recognises the idea of a just war.

I would fight too, I have no problem defending my faith.

I wonder about this sometimes, if you had lived in the OT times, when God had all the strict rules over the people, those people were told to kill over what we would consider very minor things today, surely some of those people probably wondered why they were being told to slaughter people and probably had problems with doing it.

It’s not a hypothetical scenario: the exact scenario I described happened in Mexico during the 1920s. A corrupt dictator named Plutarco Calles tried making religion illegal, and in response thousands of Catholics in Mexico took up arms to remove him from power.

Dwight Morrow arranged a peace agreement between Calles and the rebels. When Calles tried going back on his word, he and his supporters were exiled from Mexico. The first president to hold the office after Calles was Lazaro Cardenas, who relaxed most of the anti-clerical laws. By 1940, Mexico had a Catholic President (Manuel Camacho) and all the anti-clerical laws ceased to be enforced. Today, Catholics in Mexico are able to worship freely.
I honestly believe that the Cristero Rebellion is what prevented Mexico from becoming an anti-theistic state.

The situation is still hypothetical since you’re asking us to discuss a “what if” scenario. The fact that something similar happened doesn’t change that fact. The world is also a much different place since the 1920’s.

If Catholics were forced underground and began a guerrilla war against any Western superpower, they would have to make allies if they had any hopes of succeeding and overthrowing the government. And who currently opposes Western governments? Islamic radicals, Russia, China, South American drug cartels.

Where do you think this Catholic insurgents get their weapons? You’re not going to be able to walk into Wal-Mart and pick up military grade armaments needed to win a war. But the South American drug cartels would be more than willing to smuggle them the weapons they need. A modern day “war” would be violent, bloody and would require alliances with immoral forces to have any chance to succeed.

So I will repeat. No, I would kill for my religion. I would not kill for anything. I would protest, face imprisonment, go on hunger strikes but I would not raise a weapon or join a rebellion that would have to share a metaphoric bed with folks that good Catholics shouldn’t associate with.

Having to ally with unsavory factions is NOT part of the scenario I described. The Christeros didn’t have to ally with terrorists (in fact it was the opposite: President Calles was given $10,000 from the KKK to continue persecuting Christians).

If your objection to joining an armed resistance is that you don’t want to end human life for any reason, than that is fine. But tacking on the assumption that siding with terrorists would be inevitable is downright ridiculous.

Do you think Anti-Nazi and Anti-Communist Resistance Fighters had to team up with terrorists? No: they got guns the way a number of legitimate ways. They improvised weapons (Molotov cocktails were invented by Finnish Freedom Fighters to stop Soviet Tanks), they took them from oppressors (In WWII the Allied Powers distributed single-shot pistols called “FP-45 Liberator” to resistance fighters in Poland and France. The purpose was to sneak up on a Nazi soldier, kill him quietly, then retrieve and use his weapon.), they received them from sympathetic foreigners (in the Spanish Civil War, many volunteers flocked to side with the anti-communist fighters, providing manpower and weapons), they can receive aid from defectors (Communism in Romania ended because the entire army there switched sides and joined The Uprising), or they already had them on hand (most living in rural and farming communities have hunting rifles, which can do a lot of damage if in the right hands).

So not, teaming up with ISIS is not necessary for a resistance to succeed.

Except for Romania, all of your examples involve a major war already in progress, which allows the resisters to join up with a non-evil foreign power.

No such political geometry exists in the current world; there is no war – except with ISIS.

ICXC NIKA

Never. I would not kill for any reason, even self defense. Mame maybe for defense, but not kill.

You romanticizing the past, without considering how war evolved over the decades since World War II. The divide between civilian and military equipment is a bit wider now than it was in the 40’s, since most standard issue rifles were still semi-automatic. Tanks have improved significantly and now drones see active military use, especially in the United States. Compared to that, an insurgency would be ill-equipped.

Outside of the differences between military effectiveness, how war is fought has changed as well. You need not look further than the IRA, who with other insurgent groups such as the PLO and the FARC. When you are fighting a superior force, you need allies.

Would I think that an American Catholic resistance movement would work with ISIS? No. But ISIS isn’t the only radical Islamic faction. I could see them working with Chinese or Russian nationalists, who would have interest in destabilizing the American government . South American cartels, too. That doesn’t mean that they would have a friendly partnership but the enemy of an enemy is your friend, in war.

And while you, personally, might reject working with otherwise immoral factions… What about the rest of the people revolting? What happens when the majority start to feel that they cannot win without resorting to more desperate tactics? The IRA was gearing up to produce “city-destroyers” at the height of the conflict.

While the core of my refusal to lies in my refusal to end human life, I find it a bit naive to not think that such a conflict in this day of age would quick escalate to the point where the line between right and wrong is starting to blur and a conflict that originally began for a just cause loses a bit of the moral high ground that it had when in started.

WWJD.
No.

So st Joan of arc?
Didn’t do the will of Jesus?

Sounds like how it was in Jesus’s time. I would do what Jesus done. Not kill. Avoid capture, but if caught stay with the faith.

You are correct. This isn’t a hypothetical situation. It was not, and it will not be either.

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