Arguments against traditional marriage


#1

I decided to post this topic in both the Moral Theology and Family forums as I feel it is relevant in both places. Now I must first and foremost state that I am a practicing Catholic who is faithful to Church teaching, so the following objections are not disagreements with Church teaching. Rather, I find that one of the most effective means for understanding anything—including Church teaching—is to play the role of the Devil’s advocate and to pose objections to those teachings so as to better understand and thus defend them.

The following objections I will post in series rather than posting them all at once since I want each objection fully and extensively rebutted before moving onto the rest. Each of these objections is based on what I found being used online to defend gay “marriage”. Please note that some objections have subsections with arguments that relate to the main objection but are similar enough to be listed as a subsection rather than an entirely new objection.

And I must also stress that everyone MUST stay on topic. If not I’ll flag, delete, remove, etc. anything that deviates from the topic at hand (or whatever…I haven’t done this before so I don’t know how and if I can). I just want answers, not side debate.

Pax Tecum.


Objections 1 and 2:

  1. To deny gays the right to marry amounts to an attack on their human dignity
  2. a. Marriage is a human right and efforts to ban gay marriage deny gays this right

  3. Being against gay marriage is hateful, intolerant, and discriminatory



#2

Are you considering Catholic marriage, or civil marriage?


#3

[quote="flyingfish, post:2, topic:184553"]
Are you considering Catholic marriage, or civil marriage?

[/quote]

Since Catholic marriage will not stray from God's truth of marriage come hell or high water, these arguments will focus on civil marriage.


#4

[quote="LotusCarsLtd, post:3, topic:184553"]
Since Catholic marriage will not stray from God's truth of marriage come hell or high water, these arguments will focus on civil marriage.

[/quote]

In that case, as far as the legal agreements go, any group of adults should be able to enter into them. It is sex discrimination to say that only a particular combination of sexes can enter into a legal agreement.


#5

[quote="flyingfish, post:4, topic:184553"]
In that case, as far as the legal agreements go, any group of adults should be able to enter into them. It is sex discrimination to say that only a particular combination of sexes can enter into a legal agreement.

[/quote]

I was afraid of that...wanna give my objections a shot anyway?


#6

Okay.

Objections 1 and 2:

  1. To deny gays the right to marry amounts to an attack on their human dignity
  2. a. Marriage is a human right and efforts to ban gay marriage deny gays this right

I don’t know if I would say that marriage is a human right, civil marriage is a legal agreement, when I think of human rights I think about things like life, and freedom. There would be nothing wrong with a government eliminating the concept of marriage altogether.

  1. Being against gay marriage is hateful, intolerant, and discriminatory

I wouldn’t say it’s hateful, I don’t know if it’s intolerant.

I agree that it is discriminatory, by denying civil marriage the government is essentially telling a gay man that he cannot marry a man because he’s a man whereas if he were a woman he could. It’s sex discrimination.


#7

If not I’ll flag, delete, remove, etc. anything that deviates from the topic at hand (or whatever…I haven’t done this before so I don’t know how and if I can).

No, you can't. You can ask the moderators to remove posts that violate forum rules but I don't think they will remove something just because it violates one of **your **rules. :)


#8

1) Other couples besides homosexual couples are denied marriage, most prominently family members and polygamous relationships. Why doesn't denying these people marriage deny their human dignity?

1a) Marriage is not a right; it is a license, a granting of priveleges above and beyond our rights. Just like operating a motor vehicle is not a "right" but requires a license and has certain requirements to do so legally, marriage is not a right but requires a license and has certain requirements to do so legally. Marriage is not a "right" but a set of priveleges extended to licensed couples because the state perceives value for society in supporting such couples.

The question is not, "Why can't homosexuals marry?" but, "Why should they be allowed to?" With heterosexual couples, there is evidence that marriage provides many benefits that extend to all of society, the largest being greater stability for families. While people may disagree on whether or not homosexual couples that marry provide similar benefits to society as those generally provided by heterosexual couples that marry, it is reasonable to claim that they do not and therefore that there is no reason to extend the priveleges of marriage to them.

2) Claiming that being against gay marriage is hateful is an ad hominum attack. There are rational, legitimate arguments against gay marriage that have not been adequately resolved. One could argue that calling people who disagree with you, "hateful", is, itself, hateful.

Same thing for intolerent.

Discriminatory? Discrimination is not always a bad thing. Teachers discriminate against students who perform less well in classes by giving them poor grades, to discriminate them from the students who perform well. Allowing marriage to a group of people whose marriages have been shown to have a lasting and overall stabilizing effect on society primarily through stability for their biological children, but not to a group who has no such clear benefits to society from their relationships, does discriminate between those groups' relationships. The question is if this is appropriate discrimination (like school grades) or innapropriate discrimination (like racism).

Obviously, those against gay marriage argue that we should be discriminating about who we allow to marry, often pointing out the expenses involved in supporting marriages. Given the divorce rate, I think it's fair to question if we are discriminating enough as it is, in regards to marriage.


#9

Being for Gay Marriage is hateful, intolerant and discrimantory:
Hateful because gay marriage causes premature death of the male spouses, who die much earlier than hetrosexual males. Therefore, with this fact available to support such a union is to openly wish and support the early deaths of gay men. That is hateful.

Intolerant because after 2,000 years of hetrosexual marriage, to expect society to accept an abnormal behavior, biologically and socially is pushing an unecessary "victim hood" on society when in fact none exists. It is not being intolerant to acknowledge that what works "perfectly" as designed, i.e. man versus woman should continue. However, it is intolerant to demand that what does not work as designed, man vs man or woman vs woman, should now become part of the norm.

Discriminatory because it focuses hate and vile action against those who chose not to support it. It is actually a "right" to vote against gay marriage.


#10

Marriage is for the purpose of creating life ( having children ). This goal can not be achieved in gay marriage. God made Adam and then he made Eve from him to be his partner so that he would not be lonely, god made it possible for the man and women to come together and create life. God also made it impossible for same sex individuals to create life. Its in the catechism ill look up the exact passages and get back to you. It may LEGALLY in the government be ok to do, like such is the case with abortion as well. But as life respecting individuals can we really say its the right thing to do? No I think not. Also under a different name this EXACT same posting showed up on a different thread…Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should do it. I stand true to what the church teaches, because we do not stray from the word of god, even when the churches views are not favored by the secular community.


#11

My belief is that gays are free to marry. They are not free to marry those of the same sex. No one is allowed to marry whomever or whatever they wish. I can not marry my mother, sister or daughter. I am forbidden to marry an animal or an inanimate object. The issue here is not that gay individuals are denied marriage. They are denied same-sex marriage.

Others have made similar and more eloquent arguments in earlier posts.


#12

It's like saying "Gay Eucharist" or "Gay Extreme Unction"; there is no such thing as "Gay Marriage" because God through His Church has always defined marriage as being for a male and a female.

Since others have already given perfectly suitable responses, I'll just go click "submit post" now :)


#13

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