Arianism and Protestantism

In 300 years will we be looking back at Protestantism like Arianism as a long gone heretical belief it seems like Protestantism started because of sin (remarriage) then birth control now many Protestantism except abortion and gay marriage they seem like they are imploding

Any thoughts

Short answer, No!

How many folks have you met from a non-denominational background, that have absolutely no understanding of Christian history?

I bet a few, many claim the bible alone, and refuse to read any past Early Church writer, and will only read the bible. ( many of them seem to read commentaries, and listen to messages that fit their already preconceived though paradigm though) I don’t see this changing, until Christ returns!

Ps! I hope I am proven wrong!

God bless!

Such hysteria is not worth responding to. All I can say is lighten up and get a life.

It’s all about picking and choosing what one likes and doesn’t like. Mankind always has this problem. The Devil can have control of lives if you let him…it is the culture of Death.

I’d say it’s better to focus on living amd attaining Holiness by showing the true Light of Jesus to others, so that they (who fall for the wickedness of the world) may learn the errors of their ways. Patience and tolerance (which doesn’t mean just keeping quiet) but try to improve our lives and hopefully help provide the change this world sorely needs.

Easier said than done. Lord have Mercy!

MJ

I don’t know where to start. I believe that you need to study your European History to find the sin that established rebellion against the Church in many different countries from Luther to Calvin. We ourselves, cannot ignore the excesses of the Church at that time and its place in the mix. There is a significant socio-political context to be considered also; e.g. Luther’s relationship to the German Princes.
Remarriage may well have been a cause in the establishment of the Anglican Church, imposed as it was from above. However birth control is an animal of the sixties not the Reformation.
Without a shepherd the flock will continue to disperse, however it will not disappear as it is a social movement not only a doctrinal error sui generis.
God bless you in your studies.

Protestantism started because of remarriage? I will let GKC handle the Henry side of things, but the issues of the Lutheran Reformation were not about remarriage.
Here again is the problem with the term “protestant”. When we put such differing groups within the same category, there is often the chance of a blurring of lines.
#Not unlike Orthodoxy, my synod does accept that the use of certain non-abortive contraceptive birth control within certain parameters, including marriage, is allowable.
#Our synod does not accept gay marriage. I would expect that a significant majority of protestant communions do not accept gay marriage, though some of the more liberal communions do. But this is not a cause of protestantism, nor is it a driving force behind it, in large part because there is no such thing as a monolithic protestant church, or even movement.
#Confessional Lutheranism, worldwide, has shown a growth in membership, and we are not “imploding”.

As for other communions, I will let them speak for themselves.

Jon

Things like this always bring Gamaliel to mind.

NASB Acts 5:33 But when they heard this, they were cut to the quick and intended to kill them. 34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time. 35 And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men. 36 "For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined up with him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37 "After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered. 38 “So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.”

History is complicated. I suggest in-depth reading, to rectify cartoon cutout concepts.

But Hank certainly was looking for a decree of nullity, and his failure to get it was the proximate cause of the original split of the Church in England from Rome. Both he and Clement were bluffing, in the beginning, but no one blinked.

And there were lots of dynastic and political and other stuff involved. History, in other words. Messy.

GKC

Looking back from where do you assume? :slight_smile: I wouldn’t be too hard on them, they did much in spreading the Goods News to the far reaches of the West.

I suspect there are just as many very good protestants as Catholics. Many Catholics follow there own idea of salvation and the Church also. Need to get back to Christianity the family and the children. We are following the same path the east in many ways already followed and are now just coming out of it. And thank God. Not a moment to late. We need to see we are following their same faults and promoting others just as deplorable with this utterly foolish idea of equal rights.

While I disagree with the OP about the origins and motives of Protestantism, I tend to agree that erroneous theology tends to bear long term bad fruit, in spite of the many sincere and fervent faith of many of its adherents.

Christianity is a funny thing. At the individual level, faith far trumps theology and ecclesiology in importance. At the population level, theology and ecclesiology determine whether the group continues to thrive or begins to shrivel over the course of generations.

As one may imagine, I suspect that the problems innate to Protestantism (as varied as they may be) are beginning to be a major drag on the entire movement. Namely lack of authoritative leadership, rejection of many/most sacraments and an all too common (though not universal) suspicion of the usefulness of non-Scriptural information in scholarly studies. It’s similar to the way that two objects moving at velocity will grow further and further apart over time even from tiny deflections in trajectory.

I’m not much convinced that most protestant denominations will survive should current trends continue towards outright hostility to Christianity in the west.

To be honest I think that some Protestants especially the ones who discount the creeds and go by bible alone have a strong streak of Arianism.

You constantly hear them refer to Our Lord as Son of God but rarely as God the Son.

AT least it seems that they are lacking in Orthodoxy regarding the Holy Trinity.

I hear evangelicals say they believe in the trinity but they only ever pray “in jesus name” I have never heard them say in the name if the father son and Holy Spirit.

Yes I strongly believe Protestantism got rolling because of love of sin Martin Luther said that he could commit 1000 sins a day and it wouldn’t effect his salvation, John Calvin killed anyone who didn’t agree with him, Henry the 8th and divorce/ adultery along with killing and stealing

My mind is blown away that any educated person could be a Protestant. Sacramental Christianity similar to the Rcc was prominent in Ethiopia and India with no roman influence from Pentecost all the way to present time

Wow… all I can say is that I hope there are Catholics on these forums that would like to come along and help dispel the misunderstandings about Protestants that are cropping up in this thread. It always seems to go over better if we protestants don’t defend ourselves. All I will say is what you described does not match 98% of protestants I know of. The Trinity and seriousness of sin are in no way ignored by the vast majority of protestants.

=Adamski;11694649]I hear evangelicals say they believe in the trinity but they only ever pray “in jesus name” I have never heard them say in the name if the father son and Holy Spirit.

I’m not an American evangelical, so I can’t say. Lutherans confess the Trinity in the same way Catholics do, through the creeds, etc.

Yes I strongly believe Protestantism got rolling because of love of sin Martin Luther said that he could commit 1000 sins a day and it wouldn’t effect his salvation, John Calvin killed anyone who didn’t agree with him, Henry the 8th and divorce/ adultery along with killing and stealing

I strongly encourage you to read GKC’s post, #7. Luther’s comment which you reference has nothing to do with a love of sin. You have taken it wildly out of the context of the letter to Melanchthon. I might add that the CC did not have particularly clean hands in that era. That is no excuse for some of the violent things done in the name of reformation, but the guilt is broadly shared.

My mind is blown away that any educated person could be a Protestant.

That’s a lot of intelligent, well educated people you have dismissed so readily. If you go on some other forums, you can read the same types of comments about Catholics. Neither is true.

Sacramental Christianity similar to the Rcc was prominent in Ethiopia and India with no roman influence from Pentecost all the way to present time

Just a reminder that Lutherans and Anglicans are sacramental communions (with a significant amount of Roman influence, I might add), which goes to the point that a broad brush, while it covers a lot of area, usually isn’t accurate.

Jon

Decree of nullity.

GKC

That’s because we have a Trinitarian view of prayer. We pray to the Father (as Jesus did), through the Son because it is in his name that we can boldly come before the throne of grace, in the power of the Holy Spirit because it is the Spirit that empowers us to know and do the will of the Father.

Of course, evangelicals do use Trinitarian formulas, such as when we baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Most European monarchs were Catholics prior to the Reformation and they murdered and stole all the time, and the Popes loved rewarding them with titles such as “Most Christian Majesty” etc. So, the behavior of Christian monarchs is pretty much horrible across the board, Catholic or Protestant.

If we were to judge a religion by all the scandalous behavior that crops up from time to time, remember that Catholicism’s history is just as colorful.

My mind is blown away that any person could believe that Christ rose from the dead. :shrug:

Henry almost got his “Christianissimus” around 1513. IIRC.

Not exactly, maybe the Fundamentalists and “Liberal Protestants” but overall, I don’t think Protestantism(general) is a heretical belief. They confess in the belief in the Same Trinatarian God as you as a Catholic do, use the same Creed with the Filioque, believe that the 66 Booked Canon of the Protestant Canon is all Inspired Scripture, Resurrection, being saved by Grace and not by one’s own effort…etc.

So no, Protestantism cannot be classified as a Heresy but if you are referring to Fundamentalist Protestantism then of course, I would join you in your view but for Protestants in general, they are just as Christian as we are though with some differences but at the core, we are all Christians.

May I gently point out that Arianism is not a long gone heretical belief.

Arianism is alive and well, wearing modern clothes. It is seen in the Faiths which consider Jesus a “prophet” among prophets. It is seen in the denial of Christ’s power in John, chapter 6.

Checking Google, I found this interesting approach to modern Arianism.
patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/01/arianism-today.html

Seriously. It got dredged up and modified by a fella named Muhammed. :wink:

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