Arrogance and ignorance because the CC is THE Church


#1

Some person from the online group that I was in e-mailed me privately and he keeps telling me that the CC is NOT THE Church and all this and I keep telling him that it is (well it is, that’s a fact, ain’t it?) and he told me that since I said that, that it was a “damnable statement” and that I was arrogant and ignorant. Yes, I’ll humbly admit that I’m EXTREMELY ignorant on Catholicism :frowning: - but I’m learning - but I’m not that ignorant to NOT know what the Truth is.

Why on earth do people do this??? :banghead: I know I’ve probably asked this question but I get sooo irritated when non-Catholics would say such a thing :mad: It’s like I get angry in a way because they can’t see this. No, it’s not that I’m converting them or anything.


#2

[quote=Paris Blues]Some person from the online group that I was in e-mailed me privately and he keeps telling me that the CC is NOT THE Church and all this and I keep telling him that it is (well it is, that’s a fact, ain’t it?) and he told me that since I said that, that it was a “damnable statement” and that I was arrogant and ignorant. Yes, I’ll humbly admit that I’m EXTREMELY ignorant on Catholicism :frowning: - but I’m learning - but I’m not that ignorant to NOT know what the Truth is.

Why on earth do people do this??? :banghead: I know I’ve probably asked this question but I get sooo irritated when non-Catholics would say such a thing :mad: It’s like I get angry in a way because they can’t see this. No, it’s not that I’m converting them or anything.
[/quote]

Paris, you have a passionate and somewhat volatile nature (actually, passion is a good thing). But PLEASE realize that right now you are not expected to handle these kinds of challenges. Now, you need a script to give these guys. Lemme think a minute.

Name, I don’t see where you are going with this. You are certainly not winning me to your version of the truth. I will not engage in this sort of thing. Paris

Then put a blocker on his e-mails.


#3

And don’t forget to tell him before you block the e-mails that you are going to light a candle and pray a rosary for him, too.

(Then actually do it. I’m serious now).


#4

When people make negative sweeping comments like this they usually are thinking of some specific thing or incident that makes them believe what they are saying. So, ask him why he thinks the Church can’t be the The Church. Pin him down on it so that he has to defend his position. After all, when people make such comments the burden is on them to defend them not on us to refute them. :wink:


#5

Well it’s a good thing for his ignorant butt that God has mercy on ignorant non-Catholics.


#6

I did e-mail him back and asked him why he thought what he did, etc. I also told him that you can’t find 100% truth with all these billion denominations, etc. We’ll see what he says.

And guys, I’m NOT doing this to take pride or say, “we’re better than you” or anything…just wish non-Catholics would understand better but they don’t have to convert. It’s not my place to convert someone to Catholicism.


#7

[quote=Paris Blues]I did e-mail him back and asked him why he thought what he did, etc. I also told him that you can’t find 100% truth with all these billion denominations, etc. We’ll see what he says.

[/quote]

Good. Now see how he responds and ask more questions that will get down to what he really has against the Church. Then you will be able to help him understand where he is probably wrong or what he doesn’t understand. You want to be positive with him in order to help him. If he won’t answer you or if he replies by blowing you off, then shake the dust from your feet and move on. Only God would be able to make him see anything if he won’t cooperate, and even God usually doesn’t contradict such a person’s will if he is determined to be contrary.

And guys, I’m NOT doing this to take pride or say, “we’re better than you” or anything…just wish non-Catholics would understand better but they don’t have to convert. It’s not my place to convert someone to Catholicism.

Right. We can’t convert anyone. Only the Holy Spirit can bring anyone to conversion/fullness of the faith. All we can do is be a witness and pray, pray, pray (which is quite a lot, isn’t it?).


#8

He probably thought I was 2 yrs. old or something because he told me:

May I ask you your age? I am trying to understand your short sightedness and need your help.

:rolleyes:


#9

Paris, if you are serious about wanting this stuff to end then you need to end it, with love and with maturity. If you are not serious then stop complaining about it and just enjoy it.

Your discussions with these people are starting to sound like an old Monty Python routine. A man walks into a shop to “purchase argument time”. He thinks he is going to have an intelligent argument with someone - after all, he paid for it! - and he ends up in one of those “is too” “is not” conversations that go NO WHERE.

Simply end it. Do not give him any information about yourself. Simply end it. End it with love and maturity. Remember, be an attraction to the Church. I have faith in you, Paris. You can do this.:wink:


#10

[quote=Paris Blues]I did e-mail him back and asked him why he thought what he did, etc. I also told him that you can’t find 100% truth with all these billion denominations, etc. We’ll see what he says.

And guys, I’m NOT doing this to take pride or say, “we’re better than you” or anything…just wish non-Catholics would understand better but they don’t have to convert. It’s not my place to convert someone to Catholicism.
[/quote]

Hey little sister!

“Non corborundum illigitium est”

I think that you have a great love for the faith and I love you for it, but you really would be happier just hangin’ out here and learning and sharing with us and the pack of “attack dogs” that we get here. And it’ll be more fun for ya. :thumbsup:

As St Paul told Timothy, “1st Timothy 4 :12 Let no man despise thy youth: but be thou an example of the faithful in word, in conversation, in charity, in faith, in chastity.”

LSK has also given you good advice. There are some folks that I will not even enter into a discussion with because they are simply looking for an argument, and being :irish1: I’ll dive in in a heartbeat, but in the end it’s a waste of time. Better to relax, have a coka and a smile and just blow 'em off.
Pax vobiscum,


#11

You know, there is only so much you can do. First and foremost, PRAY!!! Pray & don’t cease!!! IF YOU CAN, GO TO THE BLESSED SACREMENT FOR EUCHARISTIC ADORATION and pray to Jesus that way for advice. BELIEVE me. It helps!!! DON’T DO ANYTHING W/O PRAYING ABOUT IT FIRST!!!

IF the Spirit is leading you to deal with this person, ask him what exactly it is he is not understanding. Look up the info and get back to him to show him he is wrong…chances are good he will be. DO NOT feel that you have to get back to him right away. Quality over quantity and such. IF he doens’t want to see/hear it, then there is nothing you can do. If he is calling you arrogant & ignorant, and asking your age, I think that is a good sign that he feels threatened and has nothing left to say worthy to the point you were trying to make. The devil will try to bring you down and stop from getting the truth out BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. It sounds like this guy has an EXCESSIVE case of pride – PRAY FOR HIM!!! He needs it. Above all, IF the Spirit is leading you to deal with this person, KEEP YOUR COOL!! Do not succumb to his level. Do not let the Devil beat you with this. Check your pride ALWAYS. IF you think that this guy may threaten your spiritual well being, cut him off. Block him. Prayer can acomplish a lot. Remember, not yours but God’s Will be done. It sounds like this guy needs prayer. He is so blinded by his OWN arrogance & ignorance that the best he can do is petty name calling and turning the tables on you. (Spoke to an agnostic historian friend of mine and she finds this to be the case when people don’t know things, they will twist & manipulate the situation because they cannot let their pride allow them to admit that THEY DO NOT KNOW ALL!! Know that if you ARE young, (“Do not let people look down on you because you are young…” 1 Tim) he may feel all that much more threatened because he is being corrected by somebody half his age – if he even wants to listen to you…) Always put HIM on the defense (without threatening him). Do not explain YOUR faith, make him explain HIS. If he quotes Scripture at you, show him how he is wrong (bring it here, we’ll help :wink: ). The burden of proof is on this guy. DO NOT FUME about this guy!!! LET IT GO, do not dwell on this because thinking about this will not let you worship God. Believe me. Been there, done that…

Pray. Pray without ceasing. AND, Ms. Blues, as stated, any problems, bring all issues & questions here. We’ll help.


#12

You’ll never convince a protestant that the Catholic Church is THE Church.

Try to keep a cordial tone, make sure your responses are grounded in the truth, don’t be afraid to say “I don’t know” if a question stumps you.

Above all, pray for the Holy Spirit to enlighten you to be able to handle confrontations better, and for your words to help plant a seed in the souls of others.

We don’t convert anyone, that’s God’s job.


#13

[quote=Paris Blues]Some person from the online group that I was in e-mailed me privately and he keeps telling me that the CC is NOT THE Church and all this and I keep telling him that it is (well it is, that’s a fact, ain’t it?) and he told me that since I said that, that it was a “damnable statement” and that I was arrogant and ignorant. Yes, I’ll humbly admit that I’m EXTREMELY ignorant on Catholicism :frowning: - but I’m learning - but I’m not that ignorant to NOT know what the Truth is.

Why on earth do people do this??? :banghead: I know I’ve probably asked this question but I get sooo irritated when non-Catholics would say such a thing :mad: It’s like I get angry in a way because they can’t see this. No, it’s not that I’m converting them or anything.
[/quote]

Send him this:

Do you have any idea when your faith was founded and by whom? You may find this enlightening:

If you are a member of the Jewish faith, your religion was founded by about 4,000 years ago.

If you are Roman Catholic, Jesus Christ founded your Church in the year A.D. 30.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect separated from Roman Catholicism around the year 1054.

If you are Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk in the Catholic Church, in 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the Year 1560.

If you are Unitarian, your group developed in Europe in the 1500s.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off Puritanism in the early 1600s in England.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are an Episcopalian, your religion came from England to the American colonies. It formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.

If you are a Mormon (Latter-day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y. in 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870s.

If you are Pentecostal, your religion was started in the United States in 1901.


Then block his emails.

God Bless


#14

I had posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant to post again here. This comes from the Baltimore Catechism and describes how we know the Catholic Church is THE Church of Christ:

The catechism says that there are four MARKS of the Church that help us know this:

  1. It is ONE: The Catholic Church is one because all its members, according to the will of Christ, profess the same faith, have the same sacrifice and sacraments, and are united under one and the same visible head, the pope.

  2. It is HOLY: The Catholic Church is holy because it was founded by Jesus Christ, who is all-holy, and because it teaches, according to the will of Christ, holy doctrines, and provides the means of leading a holy life, thereby giving holy members to every age.

  3. It is CATHOLIC or UNIVERSAL: The Catholic Church is catholic or universal because, destined to last for all time, it never fails to fulfill the divine commandment to teach all nations all the truths revealed by God.

  4. It is APOSTOLIC: The Catholic Church is apostolic because it was founded by Christ on the apostles, and, according to His divine will, has always been governed by their lawful successors.

Finally, “How do we know that no other church but the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ?” Answer: We know that no other church but the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ because no other church has these four marks.

Hope that helps!

~Dominus Vobiscum

-Stephen


#15

Well, you guys told me to come back to know what the guy said, well, how do I reply with a quote like this:

[font=Lucida Calligraphy]"I have tried so often to share with you that there was NEVER one church, never, there was no time in history where there was one church much less one that was led by the RCC, it is just NOT true. RCC was only one of the many fragments, one of the two largest but still only one piece. As I told you before there was the Eastern Orthodox fragment of the church and many others and from the VERY BEGINNING at the death of Christ there was factions.[/font]

There has been factions from day one and there will be different groups of believers until the very end. The RCC is not the church ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD ARE THE CHURCH, not the reformation and not RCC and not any particular group. Let that sink in for a while. It is perhaps OK for you to belong to the RCC to associate yourself with believers but it is not OK to claim that God loves one group more than another, that is divisive and of the devil.

You say that there are too many denominations and in some ways I too am appalled by the division but listen to you and you will hear a little Hitler angry with the protestants for following a path they feel honors God while the RCC believes that they honor God best, let it be then that each worships God in the best possible way they can.

God is not offended why would you be? The Pope says that he is working towards reconciliation, why don’t you follow your leader? You say that I know what the full and real church is and of course I do and so do you it is the collection of people who love the lord and are committed to loving one another, see the Gospel of John and his epistles. :slight_smile:

I do not allow others to do all of my interpretation, I have the Holy Spirit and the intelligence that God gave me. The church cannot save you and they are not responsible to teach, the BIBLE (which is higher than fallible men). Have a look at 2 tim 3:16, look at [size=4]1Co 14:26 So here’s what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight.

Here we see that each of us individuals have a responsibility to teach and NOT leave it to any professional.

You know you and I are not that far apart but the thing that really puts the wall between us is your holding fast to the erroneous and I believe Holy Spirit grieving misconception that one part of God’s flock (church) is legitimate while another is not. God is not like that where he plays favorites. If the RCC teaches Christ and Christ alone then I will have no issue with them. If they teach the precepts laid out in the Bible I will have no issue with them. If they stand by my side to do the works of God then I will consider them my ally and friend otherwise I will not extend the hand of friendship with them.

[size=2]I love those who love God in word and deed, who are humble before God because God has told us that he will lay low the proud but will fellowship with the humble and those of a contrite heart. [/size]

[size=2]How about you and I focus on what we have in common and that is the Lord and Savior Jesus? Isn’t that enough to forge a friendship and a relationship that will withstand any force thrown at it?[/size]

[size=2]It can only be the forces of evil that have two Christians, you and I, arguing and irritating one another for we know that anger and dissention is not of God but Love, peace, goodness and acceptance is.[/size]

[/size]
I am sorry to have implied that you are young and ignorant, you are young, healthy, alive, searching and earnest, I applaud that, it is just that with so little experience under your belt you and all your age see things black/white and with age, experience and heartbreaking disappointment comes wisdom and the realization that LIFE IS LARGE and much too large for anyone to think they KNOW the truth, only truth I have ever experienced that is inarguable is the Word of God as given in the Bible."

Does he know what he’s saying? I will pray for him. What do you guys have to say?


#16

sigh Make him show you proof there was never one Church…that would be my first thing…


#17

[quote=Paris Blues]Some person from the online group that I was in e-mailed me privately and he keeps telling me that the CC is NOT THE Church and all this and I keep telling him that it is (well it is, that’s a fact, ain’t it?) and he told me that since I said that, that it was a “damnable statement” and that I was arrogant and ignorant. Yes, I’ll humbly admit that I’m EXTREMELY ignorant on Catholicism :frowning: - but I’m learning - but I’m not that ignorant to NOT know what the Truth is.

Why on earth do people do this??? :banghead: I know I’ve probably asked this question but I get sooo irritated when non-Catholics would say such a thing :mad: It’s like I get angry in a way because they can’t see this. No, it’s not that I’m converting them or anything.
[/quote]

**Hello! My name is Artie and I am new to this board. I do hold Scriptures very close to my heart as well as sacred Traditions. **

Here is a quote from Mother Teresa and Benedict XVI.

Let me start out with our new pope’s statements which was from his homily.

*Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often
labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be
"tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine", seems the
only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship
of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate
goal consists solely of one’s own ego and desires.

We, however, have a different goal: the Son of God, the true man. He is the
measure of true humanism. An “adult” faith is not a faith that follows the
trends of fashion and the latest novelty; a mature adult faith is deeply rooted
in friendship with Christ. It is this friendship that opens us up to all that
is good and gives us a criterion by which to distinguish the true from the
false, and deceipt from truth."*

Remember that we can speak truth and people will probably not like it and on the other hand, Mother Teresa stated

Kind words can be short and easy to speak, but their echoes are truly endless. - Mother Teresa


#18

Paris, the man is wrong. You could keep trying to convince him that there were not fragments of the Church, but you will not win because he interprets history differently than we interpret it. He thinks we think God LOVES us more - we do not. Refer him to the Catechism. You do follow your leader, we do want reconcilliation of all Christians and for all Christian sects to accept the Catechism as handed down by the Church as the truth of the faith. This has nothing to do with love from God.

Now, either say good- bye to him with love or admit to how you enjoy the fighting. This is getting silly.


#19

Bravo LSK…bravo…

I believe in stating what I feel is correct. After that, it’s useless to continue. People that have no interest in the Catholic faith come here to merely chastise us for our beliefs. That, I believe, shows the level of maturity and intelligence on their part.


#20

How do I respond when the guy said:

" Look through the Bible and see how little Peter did, it was Paul who built the portion of the church that took hold and became what you are now a member of, the church of Rome. Don’t you consider that huge hole in the RCC’s crazy notion that God would put the well being of the church into the hands of one man? What nonsense, completely loopy that God would build the church on a man, Peter or any one other than the God-Man CHRIST.The church is build on God/Christ and is powered by the Holy Spirit, that aspect of God that is among us and within the believer."

Do I tell him about Matthew 16:17-18 about when Christ said you are Peter and upon this rock…etc?

Guys, I know you will tell me to block this dude’s e-mail address! Well, I’m not going to. This guy is NOT being TOO mean or anything, just confused I guess.

Remember, it’s our job in a way to help non-Catholics but we can’t convert them, only God can.:wink:


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