As I read a Protestant Bible it occurs to me...


#1

This Protestant Bible is leading me into studying Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, because Protestants don’t believe in Purgatory, Peter being the leader, Mary not being blessed. Yet I will explain why this made me began to ponder.

Luke 12:59 says, “I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” But it if it was talking about Hell, Jesus said once in Hell your in there forever, whats the point of that verse then? He’s talking about somewhere you go and you do suffer but to get all your sins payed for, thus he’s is talking about a 3rd place, because you cannot get out of Hell.

Matthew 16:18 states “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” You can interpret that this is saying Jesus knew Peter would be a good person to place being in charge of the Church.

Luke 1:48 states, “for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed,” Mary Knew she was going to be called Mother because she gave birth to God in his human birth,.

My take of Protestantism now:

So far I think they build there entire faith on John 3:16, at least for the most part, that verse does not directly end, meaning that it can be interpreted as that’s the main thing in general for salvation BUT not the only thing.

I think once I finish studying a bit more with this protestant Bible I will quit my Protestant finding in a Church and look at Catholicism and Orthodoxy.


#2

I apologize if I am being hard to understand....I am starting to think Protestantism is all false.


#3

Very wise! These are the same things I noticed and why I’m a Catholic now instead of a Protestant like I was before.

Now, you say Orthodoxy and Catholicism, but you already mentioned the Pope (Peter being the first) as Biblically supported. So that really points more to Catholicism than Orthodoxy.


#4

Have you noticed any difference in Protestant and Catholic Bibles? Like there are 7 more OT books than in Protestant Bibles? catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0120.html

These Journals should give you a snapshot of Mary, the Papal Authority, the Eucharist.

chnetwork.org/resources/coming-home-journals/

Have you heard of Scott Hahn? Here is his explanation of purgatory…Purgatory-Holy Fire…catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0091.html


#5

here is more about Blessed Virgin in the link in my signature


#6

I couldn’t agree more having walked a similar path to where I am now…:thumbsup:


#7

First of all, welcome! It is clear that you have learned critical thinking very well. Protestantism, first and foremost, rejects central Church authority - the authority that you have discerned that Christ gave to Peter. If there is no central authority, what you rely on then is the individual ego interpreting scripture. Aside from the fact that private interpretation of scripture is banned by scripture itself (and, by Peter no less! 2 Peter 1:20), you can easily see why there are countless protestant denominations, all of which disagree with one another over certain things. Rather than denominations, they are men’s egos conflicting - exactly as the reformers did immediately upon splitting form the Church in the 16th century. This itself violates Christ’s prayer that we be one, as He and the Father are one.

As to Catholicism and Orthodoxy, it is much more subtle - and complicated. Yet, both Churches trace, in an unbroken line, directly back to Christ via the Apostles and their successors. However, the point may be becoming increasingly moot, as the two are in constant talks regarding a solution to the great schism. I believe that, one day in the future, they will be re-united. Yet, as a Catholic, I see that the fullest expression of the One Church is the one united behind the successor of Peter. Ever notice that the entire world seems to hate the Catholic Church? We see that there are no anti-Methodost websites, no anti-Presbyterian websites. We could go on and on. But, anti-Catholic websites? Seemingly thousands of men and women are raking in big bucks preaching just how awful the Catholic Church is, and how right they themselves are about everything theological.

As a side note: Each and every protestant denomination uses the bible of 66 books that Martin Luther personally held to be inspired scripture. I note that each and every splinter group, sect and cult uses that same 66 book bible. From the Mormons to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, to the Branch Davidians to Jim Jones - all used the 66 book bible. I wonder if the “reformers”, instead of reforming, actually opened Pandora’s box?

Not a single one of them uses the 73 book Catholic bible. Zero. I find that to be a telling fact.


#8

The problem with protestantism is that protestants in effect have put their faith in an ex-Catholic priest by the name of Martin Luther, who not only began teaching his own doctrines over a thousand years after the Church was established, but took it upon himself to remove books from the Bible and appoint himself a freelance interpreter of the Bible. Thus it is that your Protestant Bible only has 66 books, and not the normal 73.

Luther removed 7 books from the Old Testament books based upon what the European Jews of his day considered part of their canon of Scripture. Luther did not realize that the European Jews of his day were using a canon assembled in the year 90 AD—long after the resurrection and the establishment of the Church—when Christianity was spreading like wildfire, the unconverted Jews who rejected Jesus Christ dismissed the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Old Testament).

Most of Jesus’ quotes from the Old Testament are from the Septuagint. The Septuagint includes *the Book of Wisdom *which happens to describe the prophecy of the suffering messiah. You will not find in your Protestant Bible–thanks to Luther’s folly Here is the passage in the Book of Wisdom:

Let us therefore lie in wait for the just, because he is not for our turn, and he is contrary to our doings, and upbraids us with transgressions of the law, and divulges against us the sins of our way of life. **He boasts that he has the knowledge of God, and calls himself the son of God. ***He has become a censurer of our thoughts. He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men’s, and his ways are very different. We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstains from our ways as from filthiness, and he prefers the latter end of the just, **and glories that he has God for his father. **Let us see then if his words be true, and let us prove what shall happen to him, and we shall know what his end shall be. For if he be the true son of God, he will defend him, and will deliver him from the hands of his enemies. Let us examine him by outrages and tortures, that we may know his meekness and try his patience. Let us condemn him to a most shameful death: for there shall be respect had unto him by his words." Wisdom 2:12-20


#9

I don’t know what it’s like in the good 'ol US of A but down here in New Zealand alot of protestant churches focus on “the great commission” and then quote Matthew 28:16-20 as if that piece of scripture is there only reason for existence & indeed for alot of them whole parts of the bible don’t even seem to exist. Makes me really sad for them as they are missing out on some really good stuff!


#10

They do seem to miss out on the fact that only the eleven were standing there, and not you and I and the crowd of 5,000. Jesus was addressing the Apostles alone, since they were on top of the Mount of Olives.

A couple of scriptural episodes tell us what happens to those who send themsevles, rather than being chosen and sent: Simon the sorcerer (Acts 8:9-24) and the seven sons of Sceva (Acts 19:13-16). Not a good result in either case.


#11

I checked this out a while ago and cannot do a good check now because Im using an iPod, but when I checked the Catholic Bible, we use "do penance. In the Protestant Bible I checked, they translate this as repent.

One famous example is Repent for the end of thw world is at hand, For which we start off Do penance for …


#12

[quote="St_Francis, post:11, topic:290293"]
I checked this out a while ago and cannot do a good check now because Im using an iPod, but when I checked the Catholic Bible, we use "do penance. In the Protestant Bible I checked, they translate this as repent.

One famous example is Repent for the end of thw world is at hand, For which we start off Do penance for ...

[/quote]

That's because St. Jerome, an ascetic monk, translated the New Testament into Latin, the Vulgate.

And Gabriel, not even Latin Catholics have used translations of the Septuagint for 1500 years, at least not since the Vulgate which translated the Hebrew instead of the LXX.


#13

=studychristian;9481835]This Protestant Bible is leading me into studying Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, because Protestants don't believe in Purgatory, Peter being the leader, Mary not being blessed. Yet I will explain why this made me began to ponder.

Luke 12:59 says, “I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” But it if it was talking about Hell, Jesus said once in Hell your in there forever, whats the point of that verse then? He’s talking about somewhere you go and you do suffer but to get all your sins payed for, thus he’s is talking about a 3rd place, because you cannot get out of Hell.

Matthew 16:18 states "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." You can interpret that this is saying Jesus knew Peter would be a good person to place being in charge of the Church.

At least for Lutherans, all we say is that the leadership of Peter does not necessarily become universal jurisdiction. We should never say he didn't have a significant leadship role.

Luke 1:48 states, "for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed," Mary Knew she was going to be called Mother because she gave birth to God in his human birth,.

From the Lutheran Confessions:
On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, **Mary, the most blessed Virgin,* bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother's womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin. *

Not sure where you get the idea that protestants don't consider her blessed.

My take of Protestantism now:

So far I think they build there entire faith on John 3:16, at least for the most part, that verse does not directly end, meaning that it can be interpreted as that's the main thing in general for salvation BUT not the only thing.

I think once I finish studying a bit more with this protestant Bible I will quit my Protestant finding in a Church and look at Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

May you be blessed in your journey.

Jon


#14

[quote="khuldar, post:6, topic:290293"]
I couldn't agree more having walked a similar path to where I am now...:thumbsup:

[/quote]

Ditto; I came to Catholicism reading Protestant Bibles. There is nothing inherently "Protestant" about the translations; the big difference is that they are missing some books and parts of books.


#15

Whilst you don’t specifically mention the Church of England, we do actually use the Deutercanonical books. Our Lectionaries have made use of them since the first Book of Common Prayer in 1549. This month we have readings from Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) and 1 Maccabees.

In the The Book of Common Prayer we sing the canticle Benedicite Omnia Opera at Mattins (Morning Prayer). This is sourced from the Deuterocanon.


#16

As I continue to study, I do wonder why Luther didn’t include the all the Bible. Dumb move on his part.


#17

[quote="Symphorian, post:15, topic:290293"]
Whilst you don't specifically mention the Church of England, we do actually use the Deutercanonical books. Our Lectionaries have made use of them since the first Book of Common Prayer in 1549. This month we have readings from Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) and 1 Maccabees.

In the The Book of Common Prayer we sing the canticle Benedicite Omnia Opera at Mattins (Morning Prayer). This is sourced from the Deuterocanon.

[/quote]

A number of Lutheran churches use the deuterocanon in its lectionary, as well.

Jon


#18

[quote="studychristian, post:1, topic:290293"]

Matthew 16:18 states "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." You can interpret that this is saying Jesus knew Peter would be a good person to place being in charge of the Church.

[/quote]

I have pondered this in my search too, but what about the verse where Jesus talks about giving the keys to all the disciples?

Luke 1:48 states, "for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed," Mary Knew she was going to be called Mother because she gave birth to God in his human birth,.

This one too, I really think about this because of course all will call her blessed because she gave birth to Christ Jesus, but does that make her what she is know as today by this statement. I am still confused on Co- redemptrix and Mediatrix of all grace and some other titles.

So far I think they build there entire faith on John 3:16.

I don't think that is the only verse, but that is the one you always hear from Fundamentalists. I said in another thread, they hold the Bible in high regard because it is God's direct word to them. It is where they go for answers.


#19

=Gabriel Serafin;9482282]The problem with protestantism is that protestants in effect have put their faith in an ex-Catholic priest by the name of Martin Luther, who not only began teaching his own doctrines over a thousand years after the Church was established, but took it upon himself to remove books from the Bible and appoint himself a freelance interpreter of the Bible. Thus it is that your Protestant Bible only has 66 books, and not the normal 73.

sigh Luther removed no books, anymore than trent added books. Luther’s translation included 74 books, as his translation also included the Prayer of Manassah.
Luther’s view of the canonicity of the D-C’s, however, was not simply based on the Jews of his day, or even the Jews in ahistorical sense. The fact is the D-C’s had been disputed by (some) Catholic scholars throughout the history of the Church, all the way to and included the time of the Council of Trent.

Luther removed 7 books from the Old Testament books based upon what the European Jews of his day considered part of their canon of Scripture. Luther did not realize that the European Jews of his day were using a canon assembled in the year 90 AD—long after the resurrection and the establishment of the Church—when Christianity was spreading like wildfire, the unconverted Jews who rejected Jesus Christ dismissed the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Old Testament).

Luther didn’t realize? Source please.

Most of Jesus’ quotes from the Old Testament are from the Septuagint. The Septuagint includes *the Book of Wisdom *which happens to describe the prophecy of the suffering messiah. You will not find in your Protestant Bible–thanks to Luther’s folly Here is the passage in the Book of Wisdom:

You will, however, find them in Luther’s Bible, even today.

Jon


#20

a friend from another thread makes the typology of the 5 fishes and 2 loaves miracle.
Jesus gave his disciples 7 sacraments to feed his children spiritually, 7 sacraments that the catholic church uses 5+2 while others just avail of 2 of these.


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