Asexuality, LGBT, & Church Teaching


#21

I agree that people do not choose to be gay. I have NEVER disagreed with this EVER in my entire life.

I don’t know if your understanding is an accurate conclusion one could base off of natural law theory. I think it denies the universal call to holiness. But I will say I think most people’s answers are simplistic.


#22

Actually, it does.
That’s the clinical definition of asexuality, low or absent libido.
Some people are like this their entire lives, or it could be a temporary condition related to things like grief or ill health.


#23

V[quote=“GEddie, post:15, topic:519107”]
Like LGBT, ‘ace’ represents an alternative to the heterosexually–frantic mating culture that was the expected norm through the end of the 1900s.
[/quote]

This is a really interesting sentence.
The frantic heterosexual mating culture, really gained traction in the sixties, with the idea that if you weren’t having sex, you were stunted and weird. People afraid of being stunted and weird gave into this propaganda and behaved accordingly.
I personally know a woman, now in her late 50s, who at age 13 convinced her 30 year old neighbor to deflower her because she was curious about all this sex she kept hearing about…

Imagine if we lived in a world where the idea that sex was purely for marriage, and not everybody is required to get married, and there’s nothing weird about the single life.

It looks like the latest phase of our sex saturated culture is for people to sit around obsessively thinking about their genitals and their feelings and thinking up new and creative labels about it.

Is it really necessary?
(For now, I’m going to hold back on my observation/rant about how young kids are being pressured into slapping labels on themselves when their barely into puberty and brain development is nowhere near complete).


#24

And no Catholic has ever done that. Look at all the masturbation threads CAF totally doesn’t have…


#25

I think part of the problem is that a Catholic culture often takes on a secular mindset and slaps chastity overtop. So aside from a few special people who become priests or religious, everyone is supposed to deeply desire marriage and think about sex a lot until they marry and get their sex license.


#26

Yeah I’ve noticed this as well. People with a low libido seem to be told frequently how bad it is etc. Personally as someone who would fit the label of demi-sexual I find that insulting. The older I get the more I just don’t care about sex…it was nice when I was younger but right now…meh…there are other things that need to be done. lol!


#27

Asexuality is generally defined as a lack of sexual attraction to others or the lack of interest in sex. Bogaert (2004) claimed that there are two forms of asexuality: 1. People who have a sex drive but do not direct this towards others—they may masturbate; and 2. People who have no sex drive at all. (source)


#28

I suspect it’s worse for women because you are supposed to want babies.

I’m actually not that fond of babies, myself, although I don’t actively dislike them. I like kids when they get a bit older more.


#29

That’s just Bogart’s definition.
I’m not bound to agree with him.

I’m more inclined to believe that if a person has sexual feelings and turns them inward to themself (ie, has not decided on a path of celibacy) and releases them through masturbation, they are either extremely immature, or have some stunting of their social development.


#30

The pool of people who masturbate at least occasionally is like 95% of men and 70 something percent of women. If masturbation means you’re immature or socially stunted, that’s like the vast majority of people walking the streets.


#31

I probably should have made myself more clear.
If you deliberately refuse to enter into relationships, to learn how to navigate the grown up world and are releasing yourself through masturbation, then yes, immaturity or stunted social development.


#32

I feel asexual sometimes, I don’t think my teenage years were the best. Though I also experience same sex attraction. I think porn really messed things up for me. 2 months free right now, it’s just odd feeling nothing.

I think people turn to LGBT because they perceive hatred against people who are attracted to same sex. The church needs to work at changing this. The issue is they take that as their identity when being a child of God is one’s true identity. I get frustrated sometimes, I believe the environment I grew up in contributed to my SSA and I didn’t have control over that. Likewise others with SSA had no control over their environment and when someone attacks you for something you have no control over it makes you feel frustrated.

I still wonder about all these labels. Asexual, demisexual, etc. I think sex has been distorted in our culture. So many people just hook up. I don’t really feel anything, at least towards women just by looking at them. Well some may have a cute face but that’s about it. I feel like if I got to know someone better and developed romantic feelings everything else would fall into place, I need an emotional connection with the person.


#33

I’d agree with that. If someone (at least someone beyond the teenage years) is deliberately using masturbation because they’re afraid to seek a romantic partner, then yeah, probably some social immaturity issues going on.


#34

Oh, you mean the world I lived in when I told my friends that I wanted to get married but remain a virgin my entire life and they told me no one would marry me or that he’d cheat on me? Then my mom affirmed this and after failing to help me understand why ANY woman would want sex, she explained to me how sex was a requirement for marriage and that sexually refusing your spouse was a sin? And any time I told my parents I didn’t relate to this desire for sex, I was told “you’ll feel differently when you’re older” or “when you find the right one.” Not to mention how confusing chastity talks were to me.

We need to recognize that however limiting labels are, stereotypes about male and female sexual urges put people in a more restricting box. We often beat around the bush on the topic of sexual sin. Understanding our sexual urges and others helps us be more loving to our neighbor.

That’s just Bogart’s definition.
I’m not bound to agree with him.

You said “clinical” definition, though, as if you were referring to an authoritative source rather than looking briefly at the discussions about it and jumping to your own conclusions about what the experience may be like based AROUND your presumptions of the world.

they are either extremely immature, or have some stunting of their social development

Unlike homosexuality, asexuality is not considered to be exclusively about being “born that way.” It’s a label people ascribe to themselves to avoid sharing personal details of their life. It’s a way to just say “Yeah, I’m not a very sexual person. Sex doesn’t appeal to me much. End of subject.” Labels change. It isn’t your business as to why they’re that way.

The important thing is recognizing that the culture has a tendency to shame, bully, and even coerce asexuals into sex. This is especially true in Christian and Catholic circles which have been preoccupied with viewing marriage as a remedy for sexual temptation. Afterall, most chastity talks presume women are somewhere on the asexual spectrum (demisexual or Gray-A sexual). Chastity advice to women often orients around the man’s sexual temptations rather than her own. This gives her a rather codependent view of sexual morality.

Modesty is not an issue that is the sole concern of women. Modest and chaste behavior is about refraining from seducing each other. Whether you sexually respond to someone is distinct from whether they are intending to seduce you. Sometimes seduction is mutual. Sometimes it’s one-sided. And a rule list of what behaviors are unchaste and what clothing is immodest is relative to culture, intention, situation, etc.

By recognizing that the asexual spectrum exists, we can avoid stereotyping men and women, recognizing that our temptations are not determined exclusively by our sex, and better discern our vocation and what loving your neighbor in regards to sexual expression means.


#35

XOkay. There’s a lot to unpack here.

First of all, growing up and navigatin puberty sounds like it was really hard for you, and you didn’t have any support for what you went through, and I’m really sorry because it sounds sucky.
The concept of a Josephite Marriage is pretty obscure, and not a lot of people have heard of it. It’s completely legitimate in the Catholic Church. St. Therese of Lisieux’ parents did this. They changed their minds later after spiritual direction. Other people enter into it and “stick” with the idea.

Actually, I’m a nurse, and this topic was covered under sexuality and under psychology in my training. So it has nothing to do with my “assumptions”. Low or absent libido=asexuality. Presence of a libido within the normal range =/= asexuality.

Erm, actually, as the LGBT activists become more powerful and have the power to force or silence language, I have every business in the world to ask questions.
I don’t need anybody’s permission to ask questions.
Ever.

I’m on board with the rest of what you said, about modesty and chastity , and respect for neighbor in your last two paragraphs.


#36

Yep I agree…it’s seems super selfish as well…there’s some sort of underlying problem with relating to others at that point.


#37

Thank you for this. I agree as an older woman now in the 2nd half of life, & honestly, there’re song lyrics that I think apply for me as I look at my coming into the Church 4 years ago…:

“What I wouldn’t give to be younger & wiser.
What I wouldn’t give to be Yours once more.
What I wouldn’t give to be less of a miser, & give You what I would give before.”

I wish she would look at this as a gift that she needs to explore more in God’s way.


#38

I think you’re presuming asexuals don’t have sex with their partners to please them.


#39

No, I was referring to the type who would rather masturbate than pursue a relationship. But going with the point of having sex to please your partner; sometimes that backfires…there are partners who simple don’t understand that and consider it “pity sex”. Then they start to feel guilty. Mismatched libidos can cause all sorts of issues :frowning:


#40

Yes, this reminds me of what Lewis says in his section on agape in The Four Loves. While we feel a desire to be loved by the natural loves, we tend to resent agape. “I don’t want your charity!”

But it does get complicated because sexual activity is something you do together. There is being generous, and there is ignoring your own needs.


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