Assad can stay, for now: Kerry accepts russian stance

#21

**Bashar al-Assad’s crimes against humanity, caught on camera
**

LIKE many refugees, Caesar had terrible tales to tell when he slipped out of Syria in August 2013. Less typically he also had pictures to document his story: 53,275 of them, to be exact. From shortly after the eruption of civil war in the spring of 2011 until his flight, Caesar (a pseudonym) worked for government security forces as a forensic photographer. The photos he took, and surreptitiously copied, were of thousands of corpses. Some were of fallen soldiers or war victims, but most were of young men who had spent their last days in the dungeons and torture chambers of the Syrian regime.

The pictures show that thousands of prisoners died of fatal neglect, vicious abuse or straightforward murder by beatings or gunshots. Some images reveal groups of naked, emaciated bodies, each tagged with numbers, splayed on the dirt floor of a hospital garage. But because Caesar entrusted his grisly trove to Syrian opposition groups that publicised the atrocities via a London law firm hired by the government of Qatar, which is hostile to the Syrian regime, some have questioned its authenticity. “You can bring photographs from anyone and say this is torture,” said Bashar al-Assad, Syria’s president, in an interview earlier this year. “So it’s all allegations without evidence.”

Such doubts should now be laid to rest. Following a six-month investigation that included dozens of interviews with former prisoners, defectors who had worked in Syrian military hospitals or intelligence agencies, forensic experts and families of the disappeared, Human Rights Watch (HRW), an independent watchdog group, says it is satisfied that the photos are indeed genuine. In a report published on December 16th it says that Caesar’s work suggests that Syrian officials should be tried for crimes against humanity.

economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21684204-trove-pictures-atrocious-abuse-pronounced-genuine-bashar-al-assads

Assad’s torture pictures have been judged authentic and most of the Syrian refugees cite him as the reason they left.

adoptrevolution.org/en/survey-amongst-syrian-refugees-in-germany-backgrounds/

Amazing that barrel bombs are still being dropped by the regime targeting the population.

Any poll of Assad is rather inconsequential since they have lost most of the country and 8 million displaced and 250,000 killed, human rights organizations saying mostly by Assad.

Looks like Russia and Syria are fighting over there but not against ISIS.

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#22

Posting what looks like an anti-semitic blog to say it mildly, that last link, I will say, it never takes long to find anti-semitic sentiments among those defending Putin and even if one claims they are not.

Oh, sure, a poll is valid because it appears on a wordpress blog? :rolleyes:

Let alone, check out some of the other stories at that blog. I’d say close to downright hateful, certainly anti-American, anti-Semitic.

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#23

Gowans cites his sources.

This might be entertaining. Why would you say that Stephen Gowans is an anti-semite? I find that amusing. Why would you say that Gowans is hateful. Do you have any quotes?

Yes, I admire him, a lot.

==

Even if Assad was malicious, why would his agencies want photographic documentation of whatever atrocities they committed. Do they have some cruel fetish for torture? Why not some euphemistic phrase to say that they were tortured and killed in some file to provide some plausible deniability?

Really, I want to know why “Caesar” had to document the photos. Photographic evidence would be necessary to confirm that a person is dead, by why such confirmation is needed for detained civilians, especially one who was detained for being a “student activist” and one for having an anti-Assad song on his phone. These people do not seem to be high value targets to justify maintain photographic evidence.

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#24

The International Dictatorship of the United States, Its Friends (Amnesty International, ISIS and the Nusra Front) and Enemies (Hassan Nasrallah, Cuba and Ana Montes)

gowans.wordpress.com/
**
Israel’s illegitimate, terrorist and criminal violence against Palestinians**
gowans.wordpress.com/page/6/

Also some of the cartoons may well be hateful that is run on that website.

gowans.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/third-intifada-3.gif?w=700&h=684

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#25

How are those articles (“Israel’s illegitimate, terrorist and criminal violence against Palestinians” and “The International Dictatorship of the United States, Its Friends (Amnesty International, ISIS and the Nusra Front) and Enemies (Hassan Nasrallah, Cuba and Ana Montes)” artisemitic or hateful?

Any quotes?

Also, the cartoon is anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic.

Regarding Ana Montes, Gowans argues that she can be seen as a prisoner of conscience who just undermined US efforts to infiltrate and undermine Cuba. Gowans then points out examples of US hypocrisy to show that the US is not acting under concern for “human rights”.

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#26

The Assads harbored the notorious assistant of Eichmann for decades: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Brunner

The Assad regime aided Hezbollah and Iran to blow up 250 Marines and Frenchmen.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

Allowed Jihadis to attack US troops from Syria. middleeasteye.net/news/iraq-asked-syrias-assad-not-aid-jihadists-former-official-1553468312 The same Jihadis that would become ISIS.

Participated in the assassination of the Christian President of Lebanon.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachir_Gemayel

We were stupid enough to allow Abu Ghirab be filmed.

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#27

Okay, if one doesn’t find these things hateful, we have different thresholds of understandings, however to run the saw, ISIS is friends with America is revolting and though many say this, it doesn’t add up.

Calling Israel is terrorist and I would not be surprised of other editorial cartoons there as well.

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#28

Stupid enough? I suppose the world would be better if it did not know what happened there.

But it was Caesar’s job to photograph the dead. Why would it be his job? He was allegedly not provided with secret cameras or used his phone to photograph the dead.

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#29

States harbouring Nazis, heavens abouve, cough, cough, the US would never have done such things…:wink:

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#30

**The Kremlin’s Top 75 Lies About The Ukraine Crisis **

The folks at StopFake.org are committed to uncovering untrue or misleading information being disseminated by Russian media about the crisis in Ukraine.

stopfake.org/en/2014/03/page/5/

We’ll have to use this.

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#31

Maybe one needs to ask Assad. Anyway, there’s little reason to doubt this.

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#32

I suggest that the M.E. is not going to be run entirely by Russia. Its ally, Iran, already controls most of Iraq and a good part of lebanon and Syria. But it would be my guess that Russia and iran will end up running the whole place in time.

That might be quite all right with Kerry and Obama, and it seems more likely than not.

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#33

Bashar would obviously deny it, as he has already.

It would seem that the Abu Ghraib photos were taken by the personnel themselves (as many were posing). Since they took these photos, it would be assumed that they would likely not get caught or punished by taking those photos. It would reflect that they believe they hard carte blanche to abuse the prisoners.

But Caesar’s photos were to document them from the government. I asked because Caesar had already been interviewed and provided testimony to Congress. Has he provided a rationale for the policy of taking those photos? The modus operandi of any government during these morally dubious activities (to put it as an understatement) is to maintain even a semblance of plausible deniability.

Okay, if one doesn’t find these things hateful, we have different thresholds of understandings, however to run the saw, ISIS is friends with America is revolting and though many say this, it doesn’t add up.

Calling Israel is terrorist and I would not be surprised of other editorial cartoons there as well.

I guess you have such a low threshold when it comes to criticism of the US.

Gowans conflates ISIS with the US because he believes that have shared (short-term) interests and that the US is complicit with the Gulf State’s support for ISIS. The US does support the “moderate rebels”, many of whom are jihadist and takfiri.

Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, quoted by Gowans: Washington launches proxy wars against those countries that seek to become independent and strong. The United States is waging a proxy war in the Middle East on everyone who refuses to submit to US domination. The proxies are the extreme sectarian Sunni Islamist jihadists, or takfiris, (including ISIS and the Nusra Front, both progeny of al-Qaeda, and the latter now reframed deceptively by US propagandists as “moderate” rebels.) The real leader and coordinator of the takfiris is the United States, assisted by its regional allies (a reference to Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.)

So one could reasonably say that in some sense, but not formally, the US and ISIS are allies as they have some common strategic interests.

I said this earlier:

Also note that the US secured $60 billion in arms for Saudi Arabia, and the US is a country that imposes sanctions on other countries, such as freezing Iranian assets, included additional provisions in the PATRIOT act to prevent money laundering, and fined BNP Paribas $8.9 billion for violating sanctions against Cuba, Iran, and Sudan. Moreover, Egypt, an autocratic regime under al-Sisi, is the second largest recipient of US military aid before Israel.

The US is not backing down its support of Saudi Arabia, which as been an integral part in the spread of Whabbism, has a repressive regime, and has committed various forms human rights violations.

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#34

Russia talks with Saudi Arabia and Turkey as well. I understand, there is a whole Russian enclave in Turkey.

Saudi Arabia to invest $10B in Russia
cnbc.com/2015/07/07/saudi-arabia-to-invest-10b-in-russia.html

Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons, Iran has been active in Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Israel. Saudi Arabia is naturally suspicious of Iran as is Israel obviously.

Russian officials met with Saudi officials over the summer. If the US doesn’t court these nations, Russia will.

Saudi Arabia’s unlikely Russian arms deals
If Saudi Arabia’s reported interest in purchasing weapons and platforms from Russia materialises into firm orders, it would represent a major reorientation of the kingdom’s defence procurement policy. However, Riyadh’s requirement for Russian kit is questionable, raising the possibility that its overtures to Moscow are primarily designed to limit arms exports to Iran.

Reports that Riyadh is interested in Russian defence products began to emerge in June-July, when Saudi delegations attended the Army 2015 exhibition at Kubinka in early June and the IMDS-2015 naval show in St Petersburg a month later. Deputy Crown Prince and Defence Minister Prince Muhammad bin Salman also visited Moscow in mid-June to meet President Vladimir Putin.

According to Russian media reports, the Saudis expressed interest in the Iskander-E tactical ballistic missile system, the Tigr frigate (the export variant of the Russian Navy’s Steregushchy class), air defence systems, the Bal-E coastal defence system with Kh-35 anti-ship missiles, and small submarines.

janes.com/article/53593/saudi-arabia-s-unlikely-russian-arms-deals

So apparently, Russia has been discussing shipments of arms to KSA; and at the same time, Russian-speakers are on all sides basically in Syria, Rebels, ISIS, Regime.

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#35

Iran has clearly made threatening sounding statements to Israel while trying to get nuclear weapons; I don’t see Saudi Arabia doing that, in fact, through back channels, apparently SA and Israel talk to each other.

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#36

Do you have any evidence that Iran had a nuclear weapons program? Not just a few centrifuges and some enriched (~20% U-235) uranium.

Russia does not have capital controls against SA. Also, the deal for the Iskander tactical ballistic missile system has not been finalized; only Russia is entertaining SA’s interest.

But my point is why is there moral condemnation against Cuba and Iran, but not against SA. It has little to do with human rights, as Gowans and myself would say.

As you could see, Gowans is not a big fan of Russia. I am not too, but I do appreciate Putin’s opposition to the fascist Euromaidan and support for Assad.

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#37

Fine, be a fan of Assad’s, I will go with all of the human rights observers. I’ve got my conscience and calling people fascists is a joke in comparison.

Iran already violated firing some missile.

And if Assad is so strong with Russian help, why are they dropping barrel bombs? Rather ignominious.

I won’t stoop to be so hateful as to state falsehoods for my point of view.

stopfake.org/en/?s=coup

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#38

I didn’t say anything about Assad’s strength; I just expressed some gratitude for Putin helping him.

And yes, the Euromaidan movement has a strong fascist influence, and it was a coup that ousted Yanukovych. Putin is righteous for opposing the Euromaidan…

I don’t see any evidence to support accusations that Stephen Gowans is “anti-Semitic” or “hateful”, but he certainly is anti-imperialist.

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#39

Saudi Arabia has not talked about wiping any country off the map. I believe Iran has.

Putin has a strong fascist influence. Strong mafia influence. All $70 billion of Putin I am sure, is very righteous!

Russian Media Explodes With Vulgar and Racist Anti-Obama Rhetoric

‘Obama Schmoe,’ monkey comparisons and ‘chimney sweep’ used to disparage American president

observer.com/2015/12/vulgar-and-racist-anti-obama-rhetoric-inundates-russian-pop-culture/

Again, I will take the word of Human Rights organizations rather than some unsubstantiated statements.

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#40

There were Svoboda and Right Sector participating in the Euromaidan.

I don’t care what the Russian media says, as I said before, I oppose the Euromaidan. And yes Putin is righteous for opposing that malevolence.

Iran did not say anything about wiping anyone off the map.

dailycaller.com/2015/08/05/john-kerry-iran-doesnt-want-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map/
washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

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