Assembly of God


#1

I have fallen in to a great opportunity. I was invited to attend my friends small group which is reading through the Gospel of St. John and discussing it. My great excitment is that we are going through the Gospel chapter by chapter and we just met and discussed chapter 4.

I have a week and a half to prepare for chapter 6!!

What is it that Assemblies of God members believe about the last supper and communion? This particular community is oriented toward 40 year olds and under, and their church is called “New Life”.

I desire to charitably present to them the Catholic teaching while at the same time not disrupting their bible study by having a great big debate and thus being uninvited. I will not however, shirk from proclaiming the truth of our Eucharistic Lord in the name of false ecumenism.


#2

Very cool! I’ll put you in my prayers. There is nothing better than be able to show “Bible Christians” where Catholics “find it in the Bible”. Diligently study, but put in some extra prayer time too!

I know what brought me back to the Catholic Church was the Eucharist. I couldn’t understand how people who “stood alone on the word of God” could deny God’s word in such a way.

God Bless
Maria


#3

Start with the Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, specifically the chapter on the real presence. Then get ahold of the Beginning Apologetics booklets by San Juan Seminars (see links below) . Volume 1 has a chapter on the Real Presence, while there is another volume completely dedicated to the subject. Considering the time you have to prepare ahead of time and the very limited time you have in the Bible study itself, this should be plenty. All of these resources should be available at a local Catholic bookstore, or from Catholic Answers.

shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-B0121.html?L+scstore+qydh9035ff7f957f+1132337590

shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-B0108.html?L+scstore+qydh9035ff7f957f+1132784423


#4

[quote=Pyrosapien]What is it that Assemblies of God members believe about the last supper and communion?
[/quote]

Here’s an AOG link with their beliefs that you may find useful.

ag.org/top/beliefs/index.cfm


#5

This may be a little late for your discussion on John 6, but go to the following site and click on the picture of Jesus to the right of the “Believer’s Test.”

members.aol.com/socratesmg/


#6

here is what the assemblies of God believes (as well as most protestants) about communion (i don’t call it eucharist as they don’t believe)

**Holy Communion **
The Lord’s Supper, consisting of the elements --bread and the fruit of the vine-- is the symbol expressing our sharing the divine nature of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:4 [KJV/NIV]), a memorial of his suffering and death (1 Corinthians 11:26 [KJV/NIV]), and a prophecy of His second coming (1 Corinthians 11:26 [KJV/NIV]), and is enjoined on all believers “till He come!”


#7

[quote=bengal_fan]here is what the assemblies of God believes (as well as most protestants) about communion (i don’t call it eucharist as they don’t believe)

**Holy Communion **
The Lord’s Supper, consisting of the elements --bread and the fruit of the vine-- is the symbol expressing our sharing the divine nature of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:4 [KJV/NIV]), a memorial of his suffering and death (1 Corinthians 11:26 [KJV/NIV]), and a prophecy of His second coming (1 Corinthians 11:26 [KJV/NIV]), and is enjoined on all believers “till He come!”
[/quote]

I think that the websites of various denominations, such as the Assemblies of God, can be useful to a certain extent. They can be a start to an investigation of what the average churchgoer in that denomination might believe.

But in doing any planning for conversations with them, I would focus on the Bible. I would tend to avoid citing belief statements found on websites (even those which cite documents shaped at denomination-wide meetings) in conversations with Protestants because such ‘statements of belief’ are often not binding.

This is not to say, of course, that your average member of an Assembly of God, is going to depart from the above statement, say, for a position more similar to the one held by the Catholic Church (although you never know what you’re going to find).

My point is that the average Evangelical (and I think it is safe to say that the AG are in that group), won’t appeal to a denomination’s statement of belief when defending their own beliefs. They will, of course, point to the scriptures.


#8

[quote=jordan]Here’s an AOG link with their beliefs that you may find useful.

ag.org/top/beliefs/index.cfm
[/quote]

Great site!

I have heard someone refer to their child’s ‘dedication’ - sounded like some sort of baptism and also they considered it some sort of binding legal obligation of someone to take care of the child if something happens to the parents…

Is this correct?


#9

Sadly, most Protestants deny the “real presence” of Christ in communion. You can point them to 1 Cor 10:26 (I think that’s the verse…it’s around there somewhere though) where it says: “Is not this bread we break a participation in the body of Christ? Is not this cup we bless a participation in the blood of Christ?”

Even better, you can look at the fundamental reformers’ views on communion. Calvin and Luther never rejected the “real presence” doctrine. Luther danced around the word “transubstantiation,” but he basically believed what we do, with some syntax changed around. Not that I am a Lutheran or Calvanist, but I have found that knowing where they stood on issues like this, and having Protestants understand that is very helpful. That or you can just show them teachings of the Church fathers (Protestants love to quote St. Augustine, although he was very Catholic in thought and deed).

The AG denomination is very Charismatic though, and may not even recognize the original reformers’ doctrine.


#10

[quote=MarLee]I have heard someone refer to their child’s ‘dedication’ - sounded like some sort of baptism and also they considered it some sort of binding legal obligation of someone to take care of the child if something happens to the parents… Is this correct?
[/quote]

I went to AG churches for years, and have seen several of these baby “dedications.” All of the ones I saw were very short and informal, not really a ceremony. They didn’t have any “godparents” in any of the ones I saw, but the AG churches can vary a lot so they may do this in other places. What they did at my church was have the parents bring the baby up, the Pastor prayed, and asked the congregation to join in praying, that the parents would raise the child in the faith. That was pretty much it.

+JMJ+


#11

One of the AG churches I attended for several years only had communion one time while I was there! The last one I went to was very ritualistic–they had communion the first Sunday of the month. :rolleyes: One first Sunday, they had the little chicklets-bread and little shot glasses of grape juice all set up, and the pastor forgot to have communion! Now that I am Catholic, looking back on it, it is really horrifying. Jesus said to do this in remembrance of him, and we Bible Christians didn’t remember!

:o

+JMJ+


#12

[quote=Pyrosapien]I have fallen in to a great opportunity. I was invited to attend my friends small group which is reading through the Gospel of St. John and discussing it. My great excitment is that we are going through the Gospel chapter by chapter and we just met and discussed chapter 4.

I have a week and a half to prepare for chapter 6!!

What is it that Assemblies of God members believe about the last supper and communion? This particular community is oriented toward 40 year olds and under, and their church is called “New Life”.

I desire to charitably present to them the Catholic teaching while at the same time not disrupting their bible study by having a great big debate and thus being uninvited. I will not however, shirk from proclaiming the truth of our Eucharistic Lord in the name of false ecumenism.
[/quote]

I have a couple of great suggestions, but you better pary & fast going in… :slight_smile: These people (www.CatholicApologetics.com) have 7 great booklets that will help you, but 2 that I’d get before you go for sure. Apologetics 1 & 3. The first is a good overview of all things Catholic & # 3 deal completely with the Eucharist. When taken in context the Eucharist is one of the most compelling reasons for being Catholic. one “Bapticostal” (his church’s name for themselves) guy is now studying to join the Church because he realized that the Eucharist was real. Some will…some won’t, but ya gotta offer it to them in charity. Most will just say Jesus was speaking symbollicly & not literally but thatsure isn’t the case in context. I always point out tha…that would make nonsense of 1 Cor 11:23-29, since you can’t become “guilty of someone’s body & blood” by abusing a symbol of them…they’d have to be really present so it could actually be done to them.

I hope that helps…I was a AOG (they call it just A/G) deacon for a while. They can be hardheaded & some are anti-Catholic, but mostly it’s just ignorance.

Dominus Vobiscum!


#13

[quote=AmandaCatherine]I went to AG churches for years, and have seen several of these baby “dedications.” All of the ones I saw were very short and informal, not really a ceremony. They didn’t have any “godparents” in any of the ones I saw, but the AG churches can vary a lot so they may do this in other places. What they did at my church was have the parents bring the baby up, the Pastor prayed, and asked the congregation to join in praying, that the parents would raise the child in the faith. That was pretty much it.

+JMJ+
[/quote]

Seen this sorta of thing my cousin goes to a Calvary Chapel had the same baby dedication thing. Sorry people it was lame. Might as well had nothing at all. THere are just going through the motions. It just shows the natural human need to have your baby celebrated and blessed by God what better way than the sacrament of baptism. This dedication thing is sad immiatation really even they will admit it doesn’t mean anything.other than symbolism. What I find funny is that dedication is an old covenant thing. Didn’t Paul say baptism is the new circumcission. Gee someone forgot that verse. Besides a real dedication included cirmcumcission and an animal sacrafice. What I saw done was so unbiblical no sacrafice no cirmcumcission just some prayer and hand clapping all this for what why is the pastor even needes I am sure the parents could have doen the same thing. So hokey.
What I found even more weird was the dedication was for a girl well that never happend in Jewish culture. Gee in Christian baptism there is no Greek or Jew or male or female. Gee shouldn’t they have baptized the baby scripture seems to indicate this. THe Jews would have freaked at a baby dedication with a girl. Somehow they can invent their own tradition of man and not question it. Even though we have been baptizeing babies for 2000 years they question it. They invent this baby dedication the last 20 years no questions.


#14

There is an AOG mega-church hear that provides a very popular bible study on John’s gospel, which unfortunately attracts a lot of Catholics, which spends at least 2 sessions attacking Catholic interpretation of chapter 6. They are going to pound it into your head that “eat My body” means to read and heed the Word of God. I have gone through the study notes with parishioners who took the study, refuting problematical statements point by point, but they were so taken with the charismatic (I would call it bombastic) style of the preacher, and with all the other trappings of the worship setting, that they now have serious doubts and are on the verge of leaving the Catholic church. Unless you are very well grounded in your faith and the exegesis of John’s gospel I would not go within 10 miles of this bible study group.


#15

[quote=puzzleannie]There is an AOG mega-church hear that provides a very popular bible study on John’s gospel, which unfortunately attracts a lot of Catholics, which spends at least 2 sessions attacking Catholic interpretation of chapter 6. They are going to pound it into your head that “eat My body” means to read and heed the Word of God. I have gone through the study notes with parishioners who took the study, refuting problematical statements point by point, but they were so taken with the charismatic (I would call it bombastic) style of the preacher, and with all the other trappings of the worship setting, that they now have serious doubts and are on the verge of leaving the Catholic church. Unless you are very well grounded in your faith and the exegesis of John’s gospel I would not go within 10 miles of this bible study group.
[/quote]

Great exegesis eat and drink = read the Bible huh?
As Martin Luther said when the Reformed theoligians brought their objections up to this text in John 6. He took them to the synoptics which simply say “This is my body” “This is my body” “This is my body” “This is my body” “This is my body” "This is my body"
what part don’t you understand.


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