Protestant objection to the Assumption, his two main points:
The New Testament was written over a period of approximately sixty-five years and not so much as one verse says anything about the bodily assumption of Mary. If this event actually occurred, then at least one of the New Testament writers should have told us.
What Catholicism has actually done in perpetuating this man made dogma of the Assumption, is to give a status to Mary that is not to be given to anyone but the Lord Jesus. Catholics place undo emphasis on Mary and give her glories reserve only for God. Any undo exaltation of Mary is repulsive to a true Bible believing Christian who desires to see the Lord Jesus Christ alone exalted. Phil. 2:10-11 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
…so this same Protestant objection must apply to passages of Scriptures where the Virgin is exalted, correct?:
[FONT=“Garamond”][size=]28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”
46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
(Luke 1: 28-30, 41-44, 46-49)
1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God,
17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.(Apocalypse 12:1-2, 5-6a, 17)
…and of course, Jesus Word means almost nothing right?:
20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me
. (John 17:20-23)
…so Jesus speaks of sharing His Glory… and that through the Believers’ Unity, in Christ, the world would come to know that Jesus was in deed Sent by the Father?
Here are a few of the basic passages that support Mary’s assumption:
Revelation 12:1 “And a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun.” Verse 5: “She brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.”
Psalms 45:9-10 “On your right stands the queen in gold of Ophir.” – This Psalm is a prophecy of Jesus according to Hebrews 1:8-9. And it says there will be a woman beside Him who will sit at His right hand.
“The New Eve” The early Christians compared Jesus to Adam and Mary to Eve because Adam and Eve were part of our fall while Jesus and Mary were part of our redemption. They were not subject to death because they were prepared by God to destroy death along with the sin of Adam and Eve which we inherit. Also, Adam and Eve would not have been subject to death if they had not disobeyed God. Jesus and Mary took the place of Adam and Eve in the New Covenant except they obeyed God’s will. They don’t inherit death because death is the result of the original sin.
“The New Ark” The early Christians also compared Mary to the Ark of the Covenant because the Ark of the Covenant carried the presence of God for the Israelites in the Old Testament, and Mary carried Jesus in the New Testament. 1 Kings 8:1-6 explains how the Ark was brought into Solomon’s Temple, and other Scriptures, including 2 Chronicles 6:41-42 and Psalms 132, say that this was a prophetic symbol of something the Messiah would do. Since Mary is the New Ark, this indicates that the Messiah was going to take His Mother into the New Temple – and that Temple is in heaven, Heb. 9:24, Heb. 8:5.
It is extremely common, from the earliest days of Christianity, for cities or regions to claim they are the location of the bodily remains of saints. Peter and Paul are in Rome for example. Some saints remains have been distributed among different places and each of those cities claim they have a piece of that saint. Nobody claims to have Mary’s remains. This would be strange considering that the location of remains of other saints are known, unless the early Christians knew there were no remains to be kept. After all, having the remains of the Mother of God would have been a Very Special thing.
The Assumption is a culmination of other doctrines, too, and an example of the theological hope of the Church in a bodily resurrection in its Archetype, the Virgin Mary. That the Church, unstained and unblemished and sanctified by Christ, looks forward to a total participation in the Divine Life in body and soul. That Mary, who lived free from sin because God sanctified her in the merits of Christ, now shares fully in the Divine Life (in the way all Christians hope to share). It’s not simply a profession to honor the Virgin, but a profession of our hope in Christ. But yes, Mary is exalted, as the Bible tells us she would be. But not in any way that detracts or lessens Christ.
According to this guys very logic that would mean the Trinity doesn’t exist either. I personally would say the dogma of the trinity is greater than the dogmas regarding Mary. Oh wait so did the Church, that’s why it came first. Anyway I mean we are talking 65 years here, you would think one verse about something as important as the Trinity would of showed up within 65 years. Some others here already pointed out the verses in regards to Mary, but I would recommend the books and talks by Tim Staples.
Any undo exaltation of Mary is repulsive to a true Bible believing Christian who desires to see the Lord Jesus Christ alone exalted.
HEY YOU’RE TALKIN’ BOUT MY MOMMA. :slapfight:
This always amazes me, more and more I see common sense being replaced by feelings. It amazes me that it doesn’t matter what would commonly happen in this situation it’s all about whether or not I feel repulsed about it. :doh2:
Honour thy father and thy mother.
Coming from a guy that has spent most every free moment (when I can actually still move) of my last three years taking care of both my parents and in-laws, why would I ever believe Jesus would think honoring his Mother is repulsive. We are talking there are days that I pass out at the end of the day. Why would I ever think Jesus wouldn’t just snap his fingers and assume his Mother into heaven. It’s not that it had to be done, it’s because it is fitting. We are to follow the example of Jesus why would he tell us to honor our parents and then treat his own Mother the same as every other run of the mill Christian. On a final note, if we are all going to have resurrected bodies after the second coming what is the big deal if Jesus let his Mother have hers now. Maybe it’s jealousy. Ooops there’s those feelings again.
I hope that last part didn’t come across as heretical.
That is not for us to decide whether or not you will go to heaven.
The Church teaches that only God knows what is in your heart. He alone knows if you deny the assumption or if you are not able to understand.
When I have trouble with a teaching of the Church I take it on faith that the Church is correct and I just haven’t gotten to a point of understanding her teaching. Basically, I am the one that must be incorrect and I need to study a little harder.
I would recommend you pray about this and ask yourself why you don’t believe in the assumption? What about it are you against? What doesn’t make sense? Where does your difficulty lie?
I would give you the same recommendations I gave the OP.
Undue (note that your spelling was incorrect…) reverence? I think not. Mary is the first Christian and as Mother of the Messiah inherits the title of Queen Mother of a Davidic king of Israel. Her intercessory role began in John 2 when she in fact influenced Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ to begin His public ministry earlier than planned and her every message down through history, when by God’s power and grace she has appeared has always remained the same as it was that day at the wedding in Cana when she plainly told the servants (and all of us as well) "Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye."
[/FONT][FONT=Georgia]Our reverence and devotion to Mary is not in any way idolatry since we know very well the difference between the Blessed Virgin and almighty God.
It would help you lots if you actually knew what Catholic Marian teaching is as opposed to the twisted and misleading misinformation spoon fed to you and other n-Cs who put forth this kind of argument. I suggest that you make use of the article at the following links and get the facts that will perhaps help reform your thinking and maybe even get you away from preachers and teachers that apparently cannot be trusted to give you truth.
As for you sir…you obviously do not know your own Catholic faith and have perhaps fallen prey to some of the same sort of n-C misinformation and anti-Catholic propaganda commonly used to mislead Catholics and proselytize them away from our most holy faith. I suffered something similar so please take the time to carefully read My Testimony.
My hope is that you will make the effort to inform yourself about the faith you are part of and experience the deep conversion that will change your life and set you on the path to the Kingdom of God.
Didn’t Elijah and Enoch get assumed into heaven? There is also an old tradition that Moses may have been assumed, as well as Joseph (Mary’s husband). So the Assumption is not really a status that “is not to be given to anyone but the Lord Jesus.”
Also, her assumption would be the logical conclusion of a life free of original sin and personal sin.
In reflecting on this point theologians and mystics have concluded a couple of things:
Firstly, that the NT writings are about the person of Christ, his redemptive mission, and the founding of the Church. Others in Jesus’s life receive mention, but only as they are related to these three narratives. Thus, some are mentioned more than others, but this tells us little about their importance and more about how God wished to use them in his work at that time. Mary is seen as a supporter of others–of her Son and his disciples, and the Apostles. Remember, she was at the foot of the Cross when all but John had deserted Jesus, and in the upper room on Pentecost, praying with the Apostles and the others when God confirmed the Church his Son has founded by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. So, it’s not like she wasn’t engaged and actively involved.
Since we don’t know the exact date and place of Mary’s death, except through pious tradition, we do not know what impact her passing had on the early Church. But, as another member stated, we have few relics of Mary which, significantly, do not include her remains from a time when the remains every major person involved in Jesus’ life were venerated and revered. It seems strange that the remains of Jesus’ mother wouldn’t also have been treated the same way.
What Catholicism has actually done in perpetuating this man made dogma of the Assumption, is to give a status to Mary that is not to be given to anyone but the Lord Jesus.
This is patently untrue. Both Enoch and Elijah were translated into heaven alive, as we know from the scriptural texts. Elijah and Moses both appeared with Jesus on Mount Tabor and talked with him. And the Church hasn’t “perpetuated this dogma” for more than a few decades–it was believed long before then, but not declared a dogma until Nov. 1, 1950.
Catholics place undo emphasis on Mary and give her glories reserve only for God. Any undo exaltation of Mary is repulsive to a true Bible believing Christian who desires to see the Lord Jesus Christ alone exalted. Phil. 2:10-11 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Again, this is false. Everything the Church teaches about Mary is centered in the Incarnation of her Son and not for her sake only. Those who do not do as Scripture says and “call [Mary] blessed” are the ones who not behaving as Bible-believing Christians.
Of course every knee shall bow to Jesus, including Mary’s. The Church nowhere teaches that she is greater than her Son, nor does the Church give her greater glory than she is due as the Second Eve who undid Eve’s disobedience with her obedience and gave us our Redeemer and Savior. Her role was unique in all of human history. If she had said no to God we wouldn’t be Christians but some kind of pagans or maybe not be here at all.
…only one exception–actually all deserted Jesus; the prophecy is clear: 'I will strike the Shepherd and the sheep will scatter." (Mat. 26:31) and “When you’ve returned to Me gather the others…” (Lu. 22:31).
Though it is true that John, along with Peter, did return (Jn. 18:15-16) to Jesus’s side (presence, not physically next to Him), being familiar to the high priest allowed him a certain sense of protection (the people would have not suspected John of being Jesus’ Disciple).
Why should the NT writers (only 5 of the 12 Apostles + the apostle Paul) have told us something about the Assumption? Jesus didn’t command them to commit anything to writing, but to “preach the Gospel” to all nations. Our Lord told his disciples: “He that hears you, hears me.” Like Jesus, the apostles were commissioned to deliver the word of God by the living voice. Jesus didn’t entrust his Gospel message to a lifeless book which could easily be corrupted, misinterpreted, and misunderstood, as such is the case in Protestantism. The safe and natural way of preserving all the traditions, including the Assumption, of the Church from one generation to the next would be by word of mouth through the divinely constituted apostolic teaching authority. The truth is that the Church and the traditional Christian faith existed before the NT books were written. Intially, the Apostles never gave it an ounce of thought to write what would become known as the NT 3 centuries later. Because of pressing circumstances and particular demands and critical issues, 5 apostles and a couple of their associates felt inspired to write things down that pertained to key issues central to the faith. Certain controversies also had to be resolved. But they addressed particular individuals and communities in a span of 50+years. They didn’t all meet on one occasion and decide to compose a collection of works that should form one volume and constitute one half of what will be called the Christian Bible. The problem with Protestants is they treat the Bible to be something that fell down from heaven as a complete compendium of books and letters to be distributed to every person and serve as their final rule of faith. However, the NT authors never intended that their gospels and letters be compiled and handed out to all people at every street corner. Nor did they intend their written works to usurp their own apsotolic teaching authority and that of their valid successors in the divine teaching office of the Church. The NT writers would be shocked at how Protestants (1500+years later) treat the Bible as a complete and exhaustive statement of all Christian doctrine and the final teaching authority. None of them were addressing the entire Church to begin with, but only particular communities over issues pertaining exclusively to them. Apparently, the Assumption wasn’t an issue to deal with, but it did belong to the deposit of faith in sacred Tradition.
What Catholicism has actually done in perpetuating this man made dogma of the Assumption, is to give a status to Mary that is not to be given to anyone but the Lord Jesus.
In Catholic teaching, the Assumption of Mary isn’t equated with the Ascension of Christ.
Catholics place undo emphasis on Mary and give her glories reserve only for God.
So, do you believe only Jesus shall have risen from the dead? Is our glorious resurrection from the dead reserved only for Jesus after all?
Any undo exaltation of Mary is repulsive to a true Bible believing Christian who desires to see the Lord Jesus Christ alone exalted. Phil. 2:10-11 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
It is God who has exalted Mary. (See Luke 1:49). What’s repulsive is how Protestants deny and object to the great things God has done for her as the mother of our Lord.
Bible believing Christians have no idea what the Bible actually is. They’re indebted to the Catholic Church for having compiled and preserved the sacred texts.