Assurance of Salvation


#1

Hi,
I’m new to this site. I thought I would share a little bit about my self first. I’m a 22yr. old college student working on a major in Marketing and a minor in Management. I love the Lord and want to learn and serve him to the best of my ability (with God’s help of course). I grew up in a Baptist church and now I go to a non denominational church b/c of Legalism issues with some of the preachers at my old church. Growing up in the Baptist church I never heard anyone disagree full heartedly with things that I felt the Bible said. But once at the non denominational church and after meeting others that used to go to Catholic churches I am experiencing a whole new way that people see the Bible and what it says. One of the issues is assurance of salvation. I read the article on this site and found it very interesting. I was wondering if you all had any verses that back up losing your salvation other than the ones in the article. One of my passions is to study the Bible and really find what it says and really means. I would love to hear what you all have to think on the topic. And maybe when I’m done with my study I can share with you all what I have found. I want to refine my beliefs and make them as true to the Bible as humanly possible. I know with translations, sometimes it is hard to get a true understanding of what God was saying but I find that if I go back to the Greek and Hebrew I am able to see what God means. My mission is to seek out the truth and find God’s will for my life and I know studing his word is all part of that.
Again any comments and verses that you have, I would love to hear.
Tiffany : )

It’s never the Bible that is contradicting itself…it’s always us not understanding what it says and means.


#2

Hi Tiffany,

The Baptist is the only Christian Church that is very strict in salvation. Once a person is already God’s child, that person will never lose his salvation.

You can’t be neglected by your parents when you are inside the burning house to be saved, unless thay are insane.

This is John 1:12


#3

Hello Tifany, welcome to the forums. I am also a 22 year old college student. But I am studying biology.

I have not read the article but I did look through it to see what they already have. Although some of these are not directly related to being able to lose your salvation they are related in that they say that we must do Gods will in order to be saved.

For salvation I recommend all of Mat chapter 25 where Jesus talks about the Judgement. He separates those who did good and those who did not.

12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. Phillipians2;12

I recomend all of James2. He says that we are justified by works and not only faith. He also mentions that the devils even have faith.

2 Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John15

5 I am the vine: you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. John15

Ephesians2;10 says that we are made for good works.

I also reccomend the parable of the rich man.


#4

Tiffany wrote:

One of my passions is to study the Bible and really find what it says and really means.

Tiffany, do you know where we got the Bible? Do you know what it is, why it was written, and when? Do you realize that the Bible consists of 73 separate writings, written by different people at dfferent times, for different audiences and purposes? That the Bible was formed by the Catholic Church? That Martin Luther removed some of the books of the Bible, and that’s why the Protestant Bible contains only 66 books?

In order to understand the New Testament, it must be read it in the context of the beliefs of the living, organic, teaching Catholic Church who wrote it under the inspiration of the Spirit. The Church wrote her teachings into the NT, either implicitly or explicitly. The Catholic Church did not come out of the Bible, as all Protestant churches do; the Bible came out of the Church. The Catholic Church is nearly 400 years older than the New Testament and the Bible.

Start at the beginning – with how the Bible came to be. You must know what it is and how we got it before you can begin to understand what it means. Catholic Answers offers a great little book – Where We Got the Bible by Henry G. Graham. I’ll send you the link.

The doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (Assurance of Salvation) is no more than 487 years old. It was invented by Martin Luther and perpetuated by John Calvin in the 16th century. Jesus and the Apostles didn’t teach it.

Original Christianity was the sum total of the teachings of the Catholic Church; it was not based on the Bible. The Bible Alone (Sola Scriptura) was also invented by Luther in the 16th century.

I’d be glad to help. Katholikos1@aol.com

God be with you on your journey,

JMJ Jay
Ex-Soutern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!


#5

[quote=pendoko]Hi Tiffany,

The Baptist is the only Christian Church that is very strict in salvation. Once a person is already God’s child, that person will never lose his salvation.

You can’t be neglected by your parents when you are inside the burning house to be saved, unless thay are insane.

This is John 1:12
[/quote]

 Its very simple,salvation is yours if you take action to do all that the Lord has commanded you to do. God Bless you. If you really love me you will obey me says the Lord.] :thumbsup:

#6

Another guy on this board gave me NINE PAGES of verses that refute the “once saved always saved” argument. Here are those from the first four pages. Granted, a bunch of verse-slinging doesn’t equal an “argument,” but it’s interesting to note just how many verses say we must “persevere” and that IF you do so you’ll be saved.

In short, there is nothing easier to prove from the Bible that you don’t have eternal assurance of salvation. You’ve got to keep the faith.

1 John 2: 24-25
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.

2 John 9-11
Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

James 5: 19-20
My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 1: 10-11
Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2: 20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.

Matthew 7: 13-15
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Romans 11: 20-21
That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

Hebrews 2: 1-3
Therefore we must pay the closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For if the message declared by angels was valid and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation?


#7

Never mind. I won’t post four pages… :smiley:


#8

[quote=montanaman]Never mind. I won’t post four pages… :smiley:
[/quote]

Can you send me those nine pages. I would like to see those.


#9

You bet. Check your PM inbox. I’ll send it to you.

Pax is the originator of this document, btw. Just want to give credit where credit is due… :thumbsup:


#10

[quote=montanaman]You bet. Check your PM inbox. I’ll send it to you.

Pax is the originator of this document, btw. Just want to give credit where credit is due… :thumbsup:
[/quote]

Thankyou


#11

Hi & Welcome!
This verse sort of sticks the issue in my mind: “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” 1 Corinthians 9:27 (Douay-Rheims Version)
This is St. Paul talking.

Here are some other verses:
Mt 7:21,12:37, & 24:13
Romans 6:23, & 11:22
1 Cor.4:3, 10:11-12, & 15:2
2 Timothy 2:11-13
Philipians 2:12, & 3:13 & 16
2 Peter 2:20
There are probably more, but these are the ones I had at hand. Please be sure to read it in context & remember that all our Bible study must be in the context of all other passages on the same topic…

Thanks for posting here. Stick around…
You may also want to post other such questions to the Ask An Apologist forum.


#12

I listed a whole series of Biblical verses relating to our Salvation. The series really addresses the idea of being saved by faith alone in response to a question on that topic but it includes verses that address your specific question as well.

forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=107215#post107215

Particular verses include Matthew 7:21, Romans 11:22-24, 1 Corinthians 9:23-27, Ephesians 5:3-6, Philipians 2:12-13, and Hebrews 10:26-27.


#13

I don’t mean to clobber you over the head with bible verses but here is a rather long list:

Some of the words of Christ on salvation**:**

John 5:24 He who hears and believes will not be condemned.

Matt 25:31-46 Christ’s teaching about judgement

**Luke 10:25-27 **Jesus answers the question, what must I do to inherit eternal life.

**Matt 24:12,13 **Jesus says, He who stands firm to the end will be saved.

**Mark 13:13 **Jesus says, He who stands firm to the end will be saved

**Mark 16:16 **He who believes and is baptized is saved, he who does not…

John 3:36 he who believes has life, but he who rejects does not have life

John 5:24 whoever believes and hears my word believes in Him who sent me

John 6:47 He who believes in me has everlasting life

John 8:24 if you do not believe I AM (Yahweh), you will die in your sins

**John 11:25-26 **whoever lives and believes in me will never die

**Matt 16:24,25 **We must deny ourselves take up our cross and follow Christ

Luke 13:23-30 Enter through the narrow door

**Matthew 5:20 **your righteousness must surpass the pharisees

**Matthew 19:16-17 **Jesus says, obey the commandments to have eternal life.

**Matthew 24:45-51 **Jesus speaks of us as servants who must remain true

**Mark 10:17-25 **you must put your treasure in Christ

Luke 18:18-22 same as above

**Matthew 7:14 **small is the gate that leads to eternal life, few find it

**Matt 7:21 **not everyone who calls the name of the lord will be saved. Only those who do the will of the Father will be saved


#14

Salvation by GRACE

**Romans 3:24 **Justified freely by his grace through His redemption.

Romans 11:6 Salvation comes by grace, not mosaic law

Ephesians 2:8,9 Saved by grace through faith, not the works of the mosaic law.

**Romans 5:18-19 **One mans rightousness brings life to all men

**1Cor 15:21-23 **All in Christ will be made alive

Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death. But the free gift of God is salvation


Salvation by FAITH in Jesus Christ as Son of God.

John 3:15-18 whoever believes in Jesus will be saved

**John 20:31 **these are written so that you may believe, and have life in Him

Romans 3:28 man is justified by faith apart from the law (compare with James 2:24 )

Ephesians 2:8-9 salvation by grace through faith, not the old law

Romans 10:9-13 if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart…

**Acts 4:12 **Christ the name under which all are saved

Gal 2:15,16 Salvation is through faith, we are not saved by the mosaic law


Salvation through HOPE (Hope is the virtue of assurance of God’s promise that He will be faithful to his Word)

Titus 1:2 a faith and knowledge resting in the hope of eternal life

Titus 3:5-7 We become heirs having the hope of eternal life

Romans 5:9,10 We have Blessed hope and shall be saved through Christ’s life.

2nd Tim 2:11-13 He is faithful, and if we endure, we will reign with Him

**Romans 8:35-39 **Nothing can separate us from the love of God




#15

Salvation through CHARITY(LOVE)(GOOD WORKS, DIFFERENT THAN WORKS OF THE MOSIAC LAW)

Matt 7:21 not everyone who says Lord Lord will be saved, only those who…

James 2:24,26 Faith without works is dead. We are not justified by faith alone

Phil 2:12 Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

**Hebrews 5:9 **Christ is the source of salvation to all those who obey him.

Rom 1:5; 16:26 Obedience comes from faith

Gal 5:6 the only thing that counts is faith expressed through love

1Cor. 9:27 Paul warns against a misleading assurance

1John 1:9 any one who claims to be in the light and hates is still in darkness

1John 4:20 If one says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar.



The free will to reject the gift of eternal life:

2Thess 1:8-9 He will punish those who do not obey the gospel

**1Cor 6:9-10 ** those doing wicked deeds will not inherit the kingdom of God

**Gal 5:19-21 ** I warn you, those who live like this will not inherit the Kingdom

1John 5:16-17 There is a mortal sin that leads to death.

Matt 12:31,32 anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be saved

**2 Peter 2:20-22 **if they come to know the Lord and are then entangled in sin, they are worse off then they were as unbelievers


Remaining “In Christ”

**John 15:4-6 ** Remain in me, and I will remain in you (notice the order)

Heb 9:27 We are judged after our death.

Heb 10:18 Once forgiven there is no further sacrifice for sin

Heb 10:26 If we keep on sinning after coming to knowledge….

**Luke 10:16 **Establishes the authority of the apostles as condition for acceptance or rejection of Christ


#16

Are you saved?

1Cor 10:12 Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall.

Matt 19:16-17 Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Luke 10:25-28 “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read it?” He said in reply, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” He replied to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”

John 5:24 “Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.”

John 6:54"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day."

Matt 10:22 “You will be hated by all because of my name, but whoever endures to the end will be saved.”

Mark 16:16 “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

Heb 10:26-27 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.


#17

It seems to me that the bible, when taken together shows pretty clearly that salvation is by grace through faith, hope, and charity, and that we have no eternal assurance. We have a real Hope of salvation, but we have the free will choice to reject that free gift through mortal sin.


#18

I won’t give you any other verses, but I will give you a piece of advice. Check out peoples profile. If you want the Catholic view, make sure the person talking to you is Catholic. For example, Pendoko is not Catholic, and I believe is from the once saved it always saved crowd, obviously, not Catholic. Sometimes there is a liar pretending to be Catholic, but usually, they get rooted out eventually. And occassionally, you get those who are Catholic, but do not believe everything the Church teaches. However, this is still the best site I know if you want to know what the Catholic Church really teaches, the original Christians!

Your sister in Christ,

Maria


#19

Has anyone read Karl Keatings latest e-letter? It’s about assurance of salvation and very interesting.


#20

When I became a Christian I attended a Baptist church for some time. In the sermons I heard (both in church and on Protestant radio) and in the tracts I read, I was told that salvation was simply a matter of “trusting in Jesus as my personal savior.” Hoewever, when I read the Scriptures, I would come across Jesus’ words in the Gospel warning that not all who said “Lord, Lord” would enter his Kingdom (Mattthew 7:21, Luke 6:46). I would read the parables of the talents and of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25, which made it seemed to me that salvation or damnation depended on what what did or didn’t do in his life, not on whether he mouthed some words about “trusting in Jesus.” Many Protestants quote from the writings of Paul to ‘prove’ the once saved, always saved position, but even he said he preached “the need to repent and turn to God, and to do works giving evidence of repentence” (Acts 26:20, NAB). This was one of the things that eventually led me to abandon Protestantism and become Catholic.


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