At what point did Jesus hit full self realisation?

At appropriate stages in his growing up years, Joseph and Mary would undoubtedly have informed Our Lord about the unique circumstances surrounding his conception and birth and He too would have been receiving direct revelations from God corresponding to his maturity. By the time he came to the Jordan to be baptized by John, we can presume that He had a good idea of where He stood in the Heavenly Father’s scheme of things. The Baptism event was a public declaration of confidence by the Father in him and indicated that the He now considered him mature enough to take the plunge. The evangelists Mathew and Luke tell us that immediately after the Baptism, He was “led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil”. Significantly, evangelist Mark, who is very economical with his words, phrases it as “At once the Spirit drove him into the desert…” (Mk. 1:12). This term “drove” implies urgency, almost a sense of compulsion, and becomes the starting point of this reflection…

Faith, first and foremost, requires intellectual assent. Jesus (in his human nature) was not exempted from this and needed to mentally accept that He, in reality, was none other than the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. His “buy-in” was crucial to the success of the whole salvation plan and it warranted a serious and detailed induction session/retreat. We are not told much of what exactly transpired in the desert. Any new Head of Government, immediately after being installed, is taken aside by responsible officials and shown the top secret files to acquaint him with critical matters of State. My spiritual guess is that the same thing happened here. Jesus’ self-concept needed to be built up from zero, since Philippians 2:7 tells us that He “emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men…” In his human mind, He needed to be convincingly educated about who exactly He was and what it entailed (viz. passion-death-resurrection). As it was such a big thing, the Father did not rush it and spent full 40-days on it.

As is usually the case with us humans, after we have done a course, we are put through a test to find out how much we have absorbed. In this case, the Father exposed him to the severest tester of all, viz. Satan himself. We can imagine Satan salivating at the prospect of bagging the Son of God himself…but being held at bay by the angelic hosts till the induction was completed. Now, we mustn’t underestimate Satan. After all, he is ex-archangel and hence would be one of the most intelligent of creatures. He concentrates his efforts on getting Jesus to doubt His own divinity because that doubt would give him a foothold into His life. That’s why he cunningly prefixes two out of his three challenges with “If you are the Son of God”. The point is that if Jesus falls for it, it would mean that he still needs physical proof! Fortunately, Jesus sees through the ruse and sends him packing. All Heaven heaves a huge sigh of relief – their man had come through with flying colours. This was His tipping point and thenceforth there would be no stopping Him!

At what point did Jesus hit full self realisation?

It appears, to me, that Jesus was ‘there’ by the age of 12 (if not before). He was already confounding the Temple scholars.

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

While reading the Bhagavad Gita, there were a number of places in that text that caused me to wonder if Jesus hadn’t been ‘traveling’ before he returned for the 3-yr period before His crucifixion-resurrection.

If He was teaching at the Temple at 12, I don’t think he just stopped teaching until we met up with Him in the NT. And if He hadn’t left town for a long period, everyone in Jerusalem and surrounding areas would already have known Him, eh?

I think Jesus had full self realization all of His life. I have no reason to doubt it.

I agree, since by age twelve, He was conversing with the doctors of the Jewish faith in the Temple. May God bless you all! :slight_smile:

I also agree. Jesus was born God, He didn’t develop into God.

Yup!

" I must be about my Father’s business."

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Christ’s soul and his human knowledge

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103

473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107

scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm#III

No I would rather suggest you revisit these ideas with some good orthodox Catholic sources…

…they do not represent the path to go down.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Christ’s soul and his human knowledge

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.100

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.

473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107

scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm#III

I would imagine since it was literally Jesus/ God being born into our world, its likely he realized this right from the womb, and although it doesnt go into detail about his early life, I would almost have to believe the baby Jesus was unique from other babies…I think he likely started speaking and talking about complex things as soon as he was born. He would not be like other human babies in that sense.

Id be interested to read about his life as a toddler, and before he reached teen years, I would imagine Mary and Joseph were constantly amazed at him on a daily basis.

For the sakes of Mary and Joseph, I would hope that Jesus didn’t arrive speaking lofty things. Perhaps God suppressed His ‘Jesus-ness’ for a short spell, or paced the Greatness, at least? :wink:

Don’t know if you’ve ever read "The Infancy Gospel of Thomas…:slight_smile:

gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

The stories of Thomas the Israelite, the Philosopher, concerning the works of the Childhood of the Lord.

I. I, Thomas the Israelite, tell unto you, even all the brethren that are of the Gentiles, to make known unto you the works of the childhood of our Lord Jesus Christ and his mighty deeds, even all that he did when he was born in our land: whereof the beginning is thus:

i think that in this world we need the hardware of our brains in order to think, just as we need the hardware of our hands to be able to hold things.

I would expect that Jesus’ awareness would grow as his brain developed.

The difference between Jesus and me is that Jesus is God and existed since the beginning while all of my experience comes since conception.

The formation of my conscious being was/is limited to what i experienced since the creation of my body.

For Jesus i suspect he was confined to the rules of this world during his incarnation and there would be a dip in the level of his awareness until his brain development allowed him to ‘catch up’ with the awareness of his eternal transcendency.

Just the::twocents: of a rank amateur. :o

We don’t know actually. We were not told as to when.

It is important to note that Jesus is truly divine and human.

And Luke 2:52 did mention that he grew in wisdom and stature and found favour with God and man. We can deduce many things from that but if he grew up normally like any man then as a man his knowledge must be progressive as he grew. But then again he is God too.:confused:

Ah, but when he was born, he already was part of the trinity, ‘part’ of God.

I believe he was unique as a baby, even as a new born. I think he probably astounded them 5 minutes after he was born. I realize its strange to imagine a new born being able to speak and have such knowledge right away, but he WAS God in a sense, part of the 3, so he would not have been a helpless infant who is unaware of whats going on or where he was, this was all planned out in advance.

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