Atheist clubs are springing up in American high schools, warns head of US Catholic bishops

It only takes a handful of bad priests and theologians to do that work.

We still have dissenting theologians with us today and they continue to damage the Faith. At best they’re worthless and at worst they continue to tell lies that poison the flock.

Those atheists sound incredibly stupid to believe that one’s acceptance of the Catholic faith prevents them from being a thinking being. Did you remind them about how stupid they are?

Or perhaps you just save that comment for others?

If Christians would stop being so stupid

Christians look and sound so pathetically stupid

If they claim that – yes.

According to your previous post, they did claim that. So I’m glad you told them how stupid they are.

I find it unfortunate that some like StAnastasia insist on the new circumcision. Next to the Bible, the Biology textbook must be there. It must be accepted. And this acceptance must be declared openly.

Peace,
Ed

No, evolution is not the new circumcision. Belief in no scientific theory – not evolution, nor gravity, nor plate tectonics, nor relativity – is necessary for entry into the Kingdom of Heaven.

What I said is “one of the reasons young people are attracted to atheist clubs may be that Christians look and sound so pathetically stupid in their rejection of scientific truth.”

Rossum had commented that it is dangerous to religion for us to teach children that religion = scientific ignorance, because when they grow up to become scientifically educated they reject religion for the wrong reason. I stand by my comment. It is dangerous to tie religion to a geocentric, or a young earth, or an anti-evolutionary, or an anti-relativity, or any particular position.

StAnastasia

So which is it then? Aren’t Catholics allowed to believe in a 6,000 year old earth and a six day Creation? And what business does “science” have commenting on the Bible? Unless you can point to a peer reviewed paper that specifically examines relevant Biblical claims, I think all you have is the insistence argument.

Peace,
Ed

Of course Catholics are allowed to believe it! The Church takes no official position on belief in a literal Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus, either. Holding none of those beliefs excludes you or me from salvation.

StAnastasia

Nice dodge. You said it was “dangerous” to believe in that creation stuff. That little kids grow up and turn into atheists when they get the so-called facts. Aren’t you going to warn those in charge about how dangerous this creation stuff is?

Peace,
Ed

I’m not sure what you mean by “creation stuff.” As a Roman Catholic, naturally I believe in creation.

It’s the marketplace of ideas. Thanks to the internet, young people have access to more ideas than ever before, and the better ideas are starting to catch on.

Yes, you pointed out how stupid the atheists you work with really are, and then you claimed that you told them that they’re stupid – just as you tell Christians.

Rossum had commented that it is dangerous to religion for us to teach children that religion = scientific ignorance, because when they grow up to become scientifically educated they reject religion for the wrong reason.

It’s interesting to see rossum’s ideas on how Catholicism can become more successful. But again, he offered an opinion with no substance or factual evidence to support it – and as I already posted, it had nothing to do with Cardinal George’s statements on the problem at hand (which has nothing to do with YE creationism).

That supports what I said (although I disagree with your valuation of Dawkins’ ideas). Young people are reading about Dawkins and wanting to become atheists. This has nothing to do with a backlash against YE creationism. How many Catholic families are YECs? Answer – very few. And yet, many Catholic kids follow the pied-pipers of atheism.

I haven’t met an atheist yet on CAF that became atheist as a reaction against the creationism they were taught as youth.

For the sake of completeness, I’ll add that most people abandon their religion in steps. I would wager that it would be somewhat rare for someone to give up religion for the sole reason of YEC – or the sole reason of anything else.

I was listening to Father Ricardo on Catholic Radio. A mother had called to tell him her teenage son had announced he had become an atheist and asked if he could talk to him. Once he sat the boy down, he asked him what compelled him to become an atheist. The reply was a kind of blank, “I don’t know.” He then asked him about what he did believe. Yes, the media is currently helping to market the New Atheism. It appeals to their desire to create a society based on their values or lack thereof. It’s right back to 1968. Let’s legalize marijuana. What’s wrong with couples living together and having sex? What’s wrong with anything?

This is anti-rational. It ignores the fact that one in five people have an STD, this after years of mandatory sex education, after years of “freedom,” after years of movies and TV shows getting raunchier and raunchier - and nobody ever gets an STD and everybody’s happy. Atheism is the counter-reality and it’s superficial. While listening to Catholic Radio today, a commentator said that today’s atheists lack the strong arguments based on intellectual rigor compared to those of past generations. Right now, in the midst of Internet Opinion Culture, too many people literally do not know what they are talking about. They’re not stupid but they lack the in depth knowledge necessary to do lasting damage.

I recommend the book: The Cult of the Amateur. Too many amateurs are running around today.

Peace,
Ed

I agree with this. But I think it applies to most points of view. People don’t tend to really do the research, they just form their opinions without knowing why. But that attitude has been around for a long time, people have been jumping on band wagons for all of human history.

My apologies for not making myself clearer. In my post #6 on this thread I was not talking about Catholicism specifically, if you will recall I used the word “pastor” rather than “priest” which I thought should be a sufficient indication:

That was a general observation, applicable to all young earthers, both Catholic and non-Catholic. I would assume that the membership of the High School Atheist Clubs is not 100% former Catholic, more likely their makeup includes former Protestants, former Mormons etc. as well.

My point was directed at young earth creationism in general - insisting on a young earth is to tie belief in Christianity to something that science has measured, and has shown to be incorrect:

rossum

No need to apologize at all, but the thought is appreciated.

In my post #6 on this thread I was not talking about Catholicism specifically, if you will recall I used the word “pastor” rather than “priest” which I thought should be a sufficient indication:

Every Catholic parish has a pastor assigned. So, we are taught by pastors.

That was a general observation, applicable to all young earthers, both Catholic and non-Catholic.

I’d be interested in hearing your ideas on how Islam can be more successful then also. Currently, Islam is the largest and fastest growing religious organization in the world. Perhaps if they did not teach YE creationism they could take over even more of the world. Maybe you can warn them about that.

The idea that Atheism is “less intellectually rigorous” is silly. First of all, it doesn’t even *need *to be all that “intellectually rigorous.” Atheism isn’t advanced calculus or linear algebra. It’s simply the acknowledgment that the religions of the world don’t have the evidence to back up what they say, and that their own intellectual arguments for their beliefs about the world are ridiculously week. Prayer is useful? Tell that to holocaust victims. Jesus is coming back soon? Christians have been expecting him to come back for the last 2,000 years and it still hasn’t happened. The Bible is true? What about all those horrible stories condoning everything from slavery to capital punishment for minor crimes to genocide?

Just the simple fact that Christianity wants you to believe in a first century Jew who is God - but also somehow the son of God? - and can make you escape eternal torment in a lake of fire forever and ever (which he basically created, by the way), if you believe that he was lynched and then a couple days later crawled out of his own grave - if you eat his own flesh and blood (in the form of crackers and wine, of course) - and telepathically communicate your allegiance to him - is all quite extreme. If you teach a high school kid to think critically about his world, it should not at all be surprising that he looks on the Christian message and finds it slightly ridiculous and severely lacking in evidence.

I don’t really get what the Bishop has problems with here. Is it the simple fact that kids are rejecting the faith that their parents and pastors taught him? Or is it that atheist kids shouldn’t have their own clubs? Or what? What’s the issue?

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