Atheists want iconic 17-foot cross removed from 9/11 museum


#1

Atheists are trying to oust the “Miracle Cross” from the 9/11 museum arguing that its inclusion would violate the Constitution’s separation of church and state.

But American Atheists say the cross is a part of religious history and are challenging its inclusion in the new National Sept. 11 Memorial and Museum which opens in May.

In arguments before the U.S. Court of Appeals in Manhattan, American Atheist’s lawyer Edwin Kagin said his organization is seeking a similar object to be displayed at the museum, something like a plaque that would say “atheists died here, too,” the Religion News Service reported.

foxnews.com/us/2014/03/09/atheists-want-iconic-17-foot-cross-removed-from-11-museum/


#2

What a bunch a babies!!


#3

Maybe not. It isn’t even really the same object that was extracted out of the rubble. It has been modified to make it look like a cross over the years. A Jewish group also protested its inclusion absent of any other recognition of the varying religions or lack thereof of the people who died and the memorial board agreed to instal a Star of David.


#4

Only fallen Christians should be honored here—all of the other victims should be ignored.

Said no good Catholic, ever.

:smiley:


#5

The real story is that the Cross in all its forms is offensive to Muslims, and secularists and liberals cannot accept the triumph and the excellence and the beauty that is the symbol of Christianity.


#6

First, there is not separation of State from Church. There is freedom of religion., which means the state “Shall make no law” concerning the practice of our faith or deny a persons right to practice that faith.

Second, I am tired of a small minority of people getting to have their way all the time. This is supposed to be a Nations OF FOR BY the people. What ever happened to majority rules. If the majority of the people want the cross there the others need to hush up.

In general, since 85% of this nation proclaims itself to be Cristian, we better start demanding to be heard a bit more than the non-believers. I would like to see a protest rally of all Christian denominations demanding the cross remain and demanding a vote on the matter. Not just about this but about a lot of things.

We need to stop relying on experts, special interest groups and lobbies to get things done in this country. I see a time coming when lots of civil disobedience might be the only thing that will save Christianity in this country.


#7

My question is how come people have this kind of time on their hands? I can barely find time to scratch myself (sorry I know its tmi). Don’t the boohooers have better things to do.


#8

Theists like religious things and atheists don’t. Whoever complains most effectively wins.


#9

^ we are not Direct Democracy (majority rule), we are a constitutional republic which by definition is suppose the protect minorities from mob rule.
I do understand your point though and I agree that a small minority should not be able to change something like this. It just dosnt make sense to me why the Cross offends atheists so much, if they truly don’t believe I don’t know why they wouldn’t see it as just a meaningless symbol.

They are probably just upset because deep down inside the holy spirit is trying to bring them back and every time they see a Cross it reminds the soul that God is truly there yet they are at war with themselves spiritually and unfortunately the devil is winning within them. We should always make sure to pray for them.


#10

Our country is quickly becoming anti-Christian and anti-God.

Lord, have mercy on us all.


#11

I tend to think that many of us do live in multi-cultural societies with different religions. Rather than argue and disagree over cultural religious symbols creating divisions and tensions, conflict, I think we need some sort of symbol that represents all religions (as an example only :- Dove of Peace) and upon which all religions can agree (if indeed we can!) and which would become a social norm - while we do treasure our own Christian symbols and especially a crucifix and that they are displayed wherever Christianity settles and is the consistent cultural norm, such as Churches, Schools, Convents, Monasteries, Christian homes and hospitals etc. etc.

Doubtless an atheist might well have big problems with even a religious symbol that represents all religions, while the Dove of Peace would embrace athiests also, to my mind, who indeed also died during 9/11.

I also think that probably there are perhaps many that feel it is either " my way or the highway" instead of looking beyond divisions, transcending them, and looking for where we can agree and what might unite where cultural religious symbols are concerned i.e. searching for reflections of that unity for which Jesus prayed to His Father so ardently before His Passion - and after all, for us Christians for example, the dove represents The Holy Spirit and the olive branch represents “My Peace I give to you” (“I and The Father are One”)and I am sure that other beliefs can attach their own meaning to some generally agreed symbol.

Dove of Peace is an ancient symbol: learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/magazine-articles/peace-symbols


#12

Christ redeemed everyone and asks us all, including atheists, to take up the Cross and follow Him. :smiley:


#13

This is very true indeed; however, athiests do not believe in the truth of this statement and we either respect other’s beliefs, or we do not.
It is our task to convert the whole world, being His disciples - and if we present ourselves as argumentative and dogmatic then most times, I think we will get argumentative and dogmatic right back. “More flies are caught with honey than vinegar” …there is some wisdom in the statement and what it implies.

Psalms 32
usccb.org/bible/psalms/32
Do not be like a horse or mule, without understanding;
with bit and bridle their temper is curbed,
else they will not come to you.


#14

:thumbsup:


#15

In arguments before the U.S. Court of Appeals in Manhattan, American Atheist’s lawyer Edwin Kagin said his organization is seeking a similar object to be displayed at the museum, something like a plaque that would say “atheists died here, too,” the Religion News Service reported.

Not enough. :frowning:


#16

:thumbsup:

That said, these atheists are being rather juvenile over the whole thing. :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

Well stated. I have wondered the same thing.

DGB


#18

I think if they were just asking for the cross to be removed, maybe.

The article was written disjointedly. The way I read it, they were asking for either/or. That is, either no religious groups* or *many religious groups should be granted a display.

I mean, if they just wanted to remove the thing then this part of the article makes no sense:

In arguments before the U.S. Court of Appeals in Manhattan, American Atheist’s lawyer Edwin Kagin said his organization is seeking a similar object to be displayed at the museum, something like a plaque that would say “atheists died here, too,” the Religion News Service reported.


#19

Well, I always thought that this country was a democracy, and it should be. That aside, I agree with you. Why should any religious symbol bother those that don’t believe in what that symbol represents? How can folks be so upset about something they don’t believe in or a God they say does not exist.? You would think they would find no power in these symbols at all. Hmmmm!:smiley:


#20

Fr Jonathan Morris discussing the issue:

video.foxnews.com/v/3317085110001/atheist-group-sues-over-ground-zero-cross/#sp=show-clips


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