Athiests and Agnostics

Suspend your disbelief for one moment and humour me.Would you LIKE God to be real,to truly exist or does the concept of God repel you?Theists,please feel free to contibute your observations.

I’d like God to be real, but not the exact same God that Catholics worship. I’d favor a God that readily intervened for peace and well-being, manifested his will and reason sooner than his wrath, waited until birth to endow people with souls (obviating problems with abortion). These aren’t the only objections I have, but I think they show my general line of thinking: I think the Christian God would have a lot to offer the world, but if he truly exists then he’s not really living up to his name.

Theists,please feel free to contibute your observations.

Theists, please don’t presume to speak for atheists and tell everyone how bitter we really are.

I’m referring to the God that we Christians worship…Father,Son,Holy Spirit…not a “if wishes were horses”, god.As I started the thread I want to reiterate that Theists are welcome to contribute their observations.

In that case, no. I’m glad that nobody will go to hell, no souls are killed in an abortion, and no God is sitting idly by while tsunamis strike Asia and rapists strike South Africa.

I respect your right to ask the question in the manner you like, and the right of theists to contribute, but I still advise you that theists do not have the answer to your question, which is inherently posed to atheists.

Why would I want to believe in a god that:

Would you LIKE God to be real,to truly exist or does the concept of God repel you?

This seems like a loaded question to me. If I were to say "yes I want god to exist then I’m basically saying that I flat out deny god rather than just having a lack of belief (and no they’re not the same thing but I’m sure someone will disagree).

If on the other hand I say I don’t want god to exist them I’m selfish and don’t want to be wrong and because I don’t want to be wrong then I must think there’s still a chance he does exist so in that case why not believe and therefore eliminate any risk to my eternal soul.

Yes I’ve had this conversation before. :slight_smile:

Either way I don’t care one way or another. I think the concept of god is for people that need more explanation in their life beyond what they see in front of them. I’ll figure out what happens in the afterlife if there even is one when I’m dead.

I have one friend who is athiest, and he and I have spoken about this before, much more when I was going through a period of doubt. I think one thing to remember is there are a lot of people who think that you cannot choose to believe something even though you think it would be great to. I remember talking to him and him telling me once that “It would be great to wake up thinking there is a God looking out for me, who loves me, who promotes justice and mercy, but I just don’t believe it…don’t get me wrong…it would be great to believe that, but how can you force yourself to beleive something you dont?” He also talked about how in “Biblical times” there were plenty of signs and even Thomas doubted himself, but was shown, there are very few ways for doubters and unbelievers to be shown now.

No I wouldn’t want to believe in a god. Especially not the Christian god.

Just like “AnEvilAtheist” said.

I commend you for your oversimplification and decontextualization of the Bible.

Not a loaded question at all.I’m not setting a trap.I am curious,period.I often ask questions of people of different Faiths.

I think it was either Dawkins or Hitchens who said the idea of God is repellent to them. The idea that an omnipotent being knows their innermost thoughts scares them.

Personally, I would desire the biblical God to exist, for many reasons. Some of them include; divine justice, ultimate meaning, an afterlife that includes loved ones. Who wouldn’t want these things?

Not a loaded question at all.I’m not setting a trap.I am curious,period.I often ask questions of people of different Faiths.

Well truth be told the idea of god actaully existing or not really doesn’t matter to me at all. If there is some sort of supreme being out there controlling the entire universe then so be it, I’ll never know one way or another so it doesn’t affect me on this spec of land called Earth in the may-as-well-be-infinite sea that is the universe in which we exist. I still don’t think there is but even if there was my brain wouldn’t be able to truely comprehend it.

/go go gadget soapbox. I appologize if I get so far off topic that I can’t see my way back but I’m in that kind of mood today. :thumbsup:

What I do have a problem with is organized religion. There are all these religions out there and all of them makes claims about all kinds of things but truth be told none of todays religions know a damn thing in my opinion. No one can agree on what god is or who god is or what he/she/it wants. Everyone is wrong in everyone elses eyes so it makes it really hard for me to believe one over another. I just don’t see how if there is a God and he really has spoken to all these different prophets then you’d think it would be the same story everywhere. As it is now we have a bunch of people that wrote some stories and it becomes the word of god but their just stories and man wrote them. Did alot of the things in the bible happen? Yeah probably, but the idea of god is put in by the author from that person perspective.

As our knowledge as a society grows the idea of god shrinks and that is unacceptable to many people, and I can’t say I blame them either but that is what’s happening.

I also think that religion is harmful to the advancement of society in certain cases. When we start looking to god for answers then we stop looking for answers in places that can actually improve our knowledge of where we came from or where we’re going. Creationism is a perfect example. Instead of trying to figure out our past we say that we just suddenly appeared. I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve never seen anything just poof into existance before. The bible says god created everything in 7 days along with man but as far as we can tell the universe is 14,000,000,000 years old give or take and I’m pretty sure we haven’t been around that long. We also like to think we’re somehow special from the rest of the animals on this planet. We’re not, humans are animals, we just have bigger brains and can figure things out. Or so you would think until you talk to a creationist that says that the earth is 6000 years old. That to me is like saying the earth is FLAT, which by the way people do say the earth is flat…still in this day and age.

Religions like to pick and choose what is and what isn’t scientific theory. Every theory has holes in it but things like evolution is picked apart because it doesn’t fit with their religious beliefs. Gravity, germs, the speed of light, the earth being round, these are all theories but you don’t see many people going around saying that god hold us down or we’d float away. They just say that he snapped his fingers and we suddenly appeared. One of these would be considered crazy and one is not to a wide range of the population.

In my opinion organized religion has its place in society because I will admit there are times where it has indirectly done some good through the actions of people that want to help. At the same time people need to take care as to not let it interfere with education and learning on a level that keeps people from thinking and trying to learn about the world around them. If we chalked everything up to god then we’d still be in the dark ages because no one would try to figure anything out. On the other hand trying to learn is OK as long as it doesn’t contradict a story written by a guy that was written some 3500 years ago.

I could really go on and on and maybe I will later but right now I need to get back to work.

Well. I’ll tell you this much as a theist. I would like for God not to be real! Sorry, but that is the plain truth. I’m a straight shooter. If us Catholics didn’t believe in God, we wouldn’t have to practice moderation, chastity, forgiveness etc. We could divorce, get abortions, be promiscuous, get drunk all of the time (well…heh heh),lie, and even kill people. Let’s face it, we have a natural biological urge for all of these things, and if we didn’t believe in God, we wouldn’t have to try and deny ourselves things all of the time. Not that I think it is all okay even if God didn’t exist, but it would certainly be harder to convince myself.

Don’t take this the wrong way atheists! I do not mean this in a disrespectful way! I’m not implying that you are all immoral people! I am not saying that atheists do all of these things! I am just saying my honest opinion.

I’d like to believe that there is a God that is all the things and can correspond to the attributes the christian God is given by men. But, unless these attributes have any signifigant meaning to them then they don’t help at all because none of them line up with who this God has revealed himself to be. So, there you go.

You have to understand that if you judge atheism by the criterion you have the same exact problem. You could even call Atheism an organized religion. You guys have atheism conventions, which is the equivalent of a church service. Anyways:

  1. Atheism is the same way. You guys think everybody is wrong but yourselves. There is a philosophical term called “absolutism.” It is contrasted with relativism, or the idea that everyone is right. Basically absolutism holds that there is one truth. Catholics hold this to be the Catholic truth. Richard Dawkins (your pope :D) believes in absolutism also. Look it up.

  2. Religion has been one of the most advancing things in society. Western philosophy has hugely been influnced by Catholic though. Religious people have laid down the foundations of modern science, especially the Muslims and people such as Roger Bacon. Also note the famous Catholic scientists such as Gregor Mendel and Georges Lemaitre (of Big Bang-theory fame). If it weren’t for that Catholic priest, we probably wouldn’t be figuring out that the universe is 14 billion years old. The Catholic Church is also receptive of evolutionary theory, so it’s not holding anything back on that. So no, organized religion is not against science as you say.

  3. Religions has done way more for society than atheism has. And it has not just been “indirect” as you say. I don’t see any atheist conventions out there every week feeding the homeless. I don’t see any atheist organizations being the largest charity in the entire world. I don’t see any atheist educational systems, colleges, missionaries, friars. I don’t see any atheist Thomas Aquinas’ laying down the foundations for modern western philosophy. I don’t see any atheist Michelangelos or Da Vincis. I don’t see any atheist architectural/artistic movements. I don’t even see atheists discovering the Big Bang theory that they like to throw at us so often, as if it contradicted our faith! You guys did not invent science, and you haven’'t even really found any major discoveries. Charles Darwin wasn’t even an atheist but a somewhat-agnostic.

And atheism has been just as bad in terms of the death-toll, if not worse. Check out the histories of Albania, Mexico, Spain, Russia, China, Khmer Rouge, Mongolia, etc.

So I must disagree completely with you sir. I think that organized religion has helped society more than you give it credit for, yet I don’t see how atheism has.

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