Azrael And The Anti-Catholic Propoganda Coming out of comic books

i cant believe this is coming out of a big company like DC comics
:mad:
bleedingcool.com/2010/10/24/azrael-and-the-anti-catholic-propoganda/

And once again the comment section is nothing but "lol priests are pedophiles" and actual praise for making the Pope this demon in disguise.

The Catholic Church is one of the last acceptable targets for the media to bash without reprecussion.

Thank God this comic is one of the worst selling series; pandering to the sub-humans that seem to believe (to quote) "Not all Priests are child molesters, just the ones who get caught" :mad:

I feel guilty, I actually laughed so hard looking at that picture.

Sigh, my sense of humour is disgusting.

Thanks for posting that.

Now every crazy on here is going to boycott DC.
Woooooonderfuuuullll. Just what we need. Another boycott. :tsktsk:

DC and Marvel have both been guilty of using religions in wise and unwise ways in their books. So to say the ‘Anti-Catholic propoganda coming out of comic books’ is somewhat like saying over generalised.

I can think of some notoriously stupid moments regarding religion in comics to be honest as well as some intelligent and witty ones. DC generally uses religion in different style than Marvel and is less liable until recently to identify any particular character as having a definite faith beyond a kind of blurry generalised Christianity. Although it has dealt with
the issue at times and does so more often in recent years. Superman for example been definitely a Methodist, Wonder Woman a pagan (as she worships the Greek Pantheon) and Batman been an agnostic bordering on atheist to name the beliefs of the most well known of the DC superheroes.

I’d like to see the issue in question to see the context of the vision as Azrael is a character who originally sprang out of the Batman comics line and no version of the character has been entirely sane or well balanced. Essentially the characters are the creation of a cult called the Order of St. Dumas who are an offshoot of The Knights Templar who train the various incarnations of Azrael and brainwash them.

It would be unfair to imagine all comics handle religion in such propgandist or simplistic terms and I can think of many better examples of our own faith and others been portrayedi in the medium. But this one below is one of my favourites:-

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/roilier/kurtloganuxm163.jpg.

I think Marvel does handle the religious thing with a little respect, they've even done books on religious figures with out spin.

[removed oversize image]

Comics are becoming infected with some liberal-modernist thinking. All that needs to be done is to point it out and let parents know. The other thing to do is comics that present religion as part of the story. The web offers many opportunities to do this.

Peace,
Ed

[quote="edwest2, post:7, topic:221076"]
Comics are becoming infected with some liberal-modernist thinking. All that needs to be done is to point it out and let parents know. The other thing to do is comics that present religion as part of the story. The web offers many opportunities to do this.

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

Amen brother!

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image_cover/Daredevil_BornAgain.jpg
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image/Daredevil_BornAgain05.jpg http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/image/Daredevil_BornAgain06.jpg

The Daredevil story is a good example and it's one of my favourite stories before the writer Frank Miller started writing complete junk in recent years. But you should note the nun in the panels is actually Daredevil's mother.

The John Paul 2 comics is like the page from the X-men series I put up. It was written in a different time. Both were written nearly 30 years ago. Marvel has some pretty bad strikes against it for anti-Catholic stories over the years as well.

I was reading the comments section. And was a little peved, they killed off night crawler. Not because he is Catholic or anything, just that he was one of my favourite character, I haven;t read in a while. I guess i wont be anytime soon either, Not if they got rid of night crawler.

Out of interest to see exactly what is going on in this series I'm in the process of reading one of the current issues. I'm going to report back when I'm done. So far in a piece of unintentional comedy I've noticed the artist (who is called Cliff Richards) has the same name as a pop-star in Britain who has been around since the 1950's and is noted for his Christian beliefs.

Using DC comics own previews page I've gathered so far the whole plot has something to do with the shroud of Turin. I must say the whole notion of the Vatican sending out an assassin called 'The Crusader' which seems to be a point of the plot according to some websites commenting on this sounds fairly ludicrous. Not that it's by any means the stupidest anti-Catholic plot I've ever seen. My award for that in superhero comics goes to a run of X-men issues in recent years where the Church had a plan to distribute poisoned Communion wafers and usher in the rapture blah blah. The writer plainly not having a clue about what he was talking about. Unlike the writer of the page I posted who was capable of having characters discuss their differing philosophies and faiths in a rational and interesting manner.

[quote="latin_rite, post:10, topic:221076"]
I was reading the comments section. And was a little peved, they killed off night crawler. Not because he is Catholic or anything, just that he was one of my favourite character, I haven;t read in a while. I guess i wont be anytime soon either, Not if they got rid of night crawler.

[/quote]

Ach Kurt will get better. It's the nature of superhero comics. Nearly every X-man has died and come back at some point so far as have most major Marvel or DC characters. In all honesty only a few people could handle Nightcrawler and the fact of his faith well. Claremont who first introduced it could (as shown in the page of that old X-men Issue I stuck up) and could also show that his faith and his whole swashbuckling personality were complementary and been a committed Christian did not mean been joyless. Also he managed to play off Wolverine who is a self-professed atheist against him as they were always portrayed as close friends despite the former claiming he had no ideals or faiith. Which of course considering he was actually a man with a very strict moral code of his own was never true as Kurt kept pointedly reminding him. Their arguments about the use of lethal force were always entertaining and something I doubt Marvel would ever do today where characters killing is just accepted much of the time.

There are some worthwhile uses of religious characters and themes in comics. As the poster who used the Daredevil issues shows. Daredevil is one of the most Catholic of superheroes though and it takes (again) a tactful writer to handle that side of him.One hilarious screw up I remember there was that one of Daredevil's long time romances is a nominal member of the Russian Orthodox Church and they had her receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church as they were 'more or less the same thing'. That one little incident showed the kind of level of knowledge many in the industry have of religion.

Reporting back after having read an issue of this title. Well it's not quite as big mess as it might seem from the OP but it isn't too good either. Basically as with previous incarantions of this character Azrael is more nutty than the world's highest grade fruitcake. There certainly are some anti-Catholic elements lifted straight from the same kind of silliness Dan Brown drew from. Azrael to show how Catholic he is flagellates himself in one sequence leaving his back blood and torn to ribbons. When (in one of the few bright spots in the book)a priest questions this saying it's barbaric he tells the priest it's medieval. Lots of other silly myths of a similar kind about Catholic guilt seem to be doing the rounds through this comic. Batman pops up. In fact two Batmen as until recently the original and best known Bruce Wayne was presumed dead in the DC universe and the first Robin who is now an adult was acting as Batman. Bruce is still recovering and re-establishing himself so the former Robin is now tasked by Bruce with finding out just how bananas Azrael is as he appears to be acting as judge, jury and executioner. Since the first Robin apparently gave Azrael tacit permission to operate in Gotham Bruce forcefully tells him to see if the rumours about him killing are true and if so to take him down.

The whole title feels like it's close to cancellation with that subplot going on and it has atrocious sales figures. Azreal is actually an interesting enough character in his original incarnation as the costume itself and the brainwashing those who take on the role undergo is implied to cause madness. Batman (the original) himself used the costume and identity for a time. However the portrayal of the maddness slips over into Catholic history cliches no 1000648. If the priest had said, 'Actually Catholics in the middle ages weren't encourage to scourge themselves to the point of seeing raw bones sticking out' or similar we might have been able to make something of it.

For a better portrayal of the Catholic faith in DC comics I'd recommend a very old title called Suicide Squad which dealt with villains been offered a chance at pardons if they worked for the govt. They had a pastor to minister to them who was a very sympathetic character.

Really DC could do better than this stuff in the final analysis but it's not exactly going to be ever quoted as a highpoint of comic book art. Jack Kirby, Will Eisner, Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison it is most definitely not.

I really didn't care for much of anything in comics after the 1970s. When Frank Miller did his stint on Daredevil in the 80's, it was OK, but his later work - eccch. Gaiman and the others after? I didn't even finish reading Watchmen when it first came out.

Today, comic book writers and artists are too busy reinventing the wheel and too busy hoping to be the next big thing, that they've become stylists, not artists. I don't need to see "Hawkins - Bing - Elliot" at the top a cover. I don't care about this as a reader. They've even forgotten what a comic book cover should be from a storytelling standpoint. It's too bad that the professionalism and drive to tell a really compelling story are missing in 99% of the books. Today we've got way too much self-promotion in the comic book industry. Men like Stan Lee and Jack Kirby knew what they were doing and were relatively modest about their accomplishments. They knew that their craft came first, and any accolades were icing on the cake. Today, it's the wrong way around.

Peace,
Ed

[quote="edwest2, post:14, topic:221076"]
Men like Stan Lee and Jack Kirby knew what they were doing and were relatively modest about their accomplishments. They knew that their craft came first, and any accolades were icing on the cake. Today, it's the wrong way around.

[/quote]

Excelsior!

[quote="edwest2, post:14, topic:221076"]
I really didn't care for much of anything in comics after the 1970s. When Frank Miller did his stint on Daredevil in the 80's, it was OK, but his later work - eccch. Gaiman and the others after? I didn't even finish reading Watchmen when it first came out.

Today, comic book writers and artists are too busy reinventing the wheel and too busy hoping to be the next big thing, that they've become stylists, not artists. I don't need to see "Hawkins - Bing - Elliot" at the top a cover. I don't care about this as a reader. They've even forgotten what a comic book cover should be from a storytelling standpoint. It's too bad that the professionalism and drive to tell a really compelling story are missing in 99% of the books. Today we've got way too much self-promotion in the comic book industry. Men like Stan Lee and Jack Kirby knew what they were doing and were relatively modest about their accomplishments. They knew that their craft came first, and any accolades were icing on the cake. Today, it's the wrong way around.

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

True for Jack perhaps but Stan has always been a shameless master of self-promotion and I don't say that as an insult as it's just how he is. Now Miller I'll agree with you there, much past Batman Year One with him he becomes more and unreadable and positively deranged at points. His latest work on Batman is atrocious with Batman having rough sex in the Batmobile and refering to himself as 'The Goddamned Batman' every two seconds. It's either a satire or a train wreck and opinion as to which it is is equally divided at the minute.

I read Watchmen at about age 14 first.I wasn't really equipped to understand it thoroughly at that point. I actually prefer Moore's runs on work on some British comics before he began famous and his work on 'From Hell' which I think is his crowning work.

Will Eisner is one of my personal heroes in the medium if anyone else likes him here at all.

Azrael is a very silly comic, superheroes are to be frank fairly silly ultimately and you can only be so serious with them. The best you can do is work with the hyperbole inherent in the whole idea when doing anything with them.

[quote="edwest2, post:7, topic:221076"]
Comics are becoming infected with some liberal-modernist thinking. All that needs to be done is to point it out and let parents know. The other thing to do is comics that present religion as part of the story. The web offers many opportunities to do this.

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

Is it possible for there to be a thread where "modernist" doesn't come up...? Yes, this is clearly an example of anti-Catholic bigotry but I swear some people are just looking for "modernism" in everything...

It's ultimately just a badly written comic book. Few comic book writers possess the neccesary delicacy of touch to handle religion in comics well. I can think of maybe 4 or 5 of the top of my head who can do so.

[quote="Suni_Moon, post:4, topic:221076"]
Thanks for posting that.

Now every crazy on here is going to boycott DC.
Woooooonderfuuuullll. Just what we need. Another boycott. :tsktsk:

[/quote]

Itr's ok suni. We still have Fr Abel...and Fr Zaphie. Who are epic

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