Banning gays from Seminaries (as reported in the news)?


#1

According to this article in the Washington Post, there are rumors that the Church will ban homosexuals from seminaries (and, thus, Ordination).

What do you think?


#2

Yes, openly homosexual men should be excluded.

Openly? Excluded? This is a poorly worded poll.

Try

Yes, all homosexual men should be barred.


#3

Homosexual men must be banned from becoming a Priest.I just cannot stand it, when an obviously gay priest officiate the Mass who exhibits it, through his acts,voice,mannerism etc.He doesnt have any business there,even if he will be celibate all his life!


#4

I read the Washington Post story this morning - we’ve known that a document has been in the works since 2001 (at least!) so I suppose that the source ‘leaked’ the fact that we’re just weeks away from promulgation of a document (from what source? My bet is the CCE) that will, in some way, outline a manner in which the sexual ‘orientation’ of a candidate for seminary will be discerned.

I have no idea of what the document might say but I don’t expect anything new - just a reiteration of Church doctrine (although it might enjoy some media attention).


#5

This is difficult to answer as even people who have homosexual tendancies have their own dignity. Not that I believe that they should be excluded as some people are just influenced to that particular preference, they need our support.
I do see the problem having a homosexual in the seminary as men in close quarters having to live with each other can have a great deal of difficulty in holiness if they are homosexual or someone else is in close proximity.
This is almost like having men and women live together, or forcing a man to live in a situation where he is potentially attractive to someone living with him.

To carry this out properly without just leaving these gay men a dignified way out, is delicate. Forgive my rattling on, my daughter is singing real loud next to me and she is cute but distracting.

God Bless
Scylla


#6

[quote=silvano]Homosexual men must be banned from becoming a Priest.I just cannot stand it, when an obviously gay priest officiate the Mass who exhibits it, through his acts,voice,mannerism etc.He doesnt have any business there,even if he will be celibate all his life!
[/quote]

Why should what you can stand be relevant? This priest whose manners you dislike may be far holier than you or I will ever be!

To judge people on the basis of “orientation” is to give in to the assumptions that underlie the liberal, secular position–that people are who they are based on genes or hormones or circumstances rather than on the grace of God and their response to that grace.

Edwin


#7

[quote=Contarini]Why should what you can stand be relevant? This priest whose manners you dislike may be far holier than you or I will ever be!

To judge people on the basis of “orientation” is to give in to the assumptions that underlie the liberal, secular position–that people are who they are based on genes or hormones or circumstances rather than on the grace of God and their response to that grace.

Edwin
[/quote]

Wouldn’t it be fair to say that a practicing homosexual isn’t responding to God’s grace all that well?


#8

[quote=Lazerlike42]Wouldn’t it be fair to say that a practicing homosexual isn’t responding to God’s grace all that well?
[/quote]

Operative word…“practicing”…
Not to defend gays in the priesthood but a “practicing homosexual” has no more place in the priesthood than a “practicing heterosexual” since both are called to chastity. (as are we all…)

I think you’re quite right about the response to God’s grace.


#9

Homosexual priest is an oxymoron.
Heterosexual priest is an oxymoron.

They are celebate. So, is the issue: What they would be doing if they weren’t a priest?

Should that matter?


#10

[quote=Church Militant]Operative word…“practicing”…
Not to defend gays in the priesthood but a “practicing homosexual” has no more place in the priesthood than a “practicing heterosexual” since both are called to chastity. (as are we all…)

I think you’re quite right about the response to God’s grace.
[/quote]

HAHA!! we sort of jynx-posted there. Cheers!


#11

Vatican, Sep. 19 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI has given his approval to a new Vatican policy document indicating that men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained as Catholic priests.

The new document-- which was prepared by the Congregation for Catholic Education, in response to a request made by the late Pope John Paul II in 1994-- will be published soon. It will take the form of an “Instruction,” signed by the prefect and secretary of the Congregation: Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski and Archbishop Michael Miller.

The text, which was approved by Pope Benedict at the end of August, says that homosexual men should not be admitted to seminaries even if they are celibate, because their condition suggests a serious personality disorder which detracts from their ability to serve as ministers.

Here’s my answer, and where the Pope has spoken: I am silent.


#12

I think the issue here is not if the Priest is homosexual or not or known homosexual or not. The issue is, is he celibate and living a life of Chastity. I care about his heart and his relationship to Jesus.

In the sex abuse problem of the Church it seems that homosexuality has been made the scape goat. there is a clear difference between homosexual persons and a pedophiles.

Being a homosexual is a cross to bear, but it still requires us to a life of chastely. I dont think they should be singled out.Does this say that a homosexual priest cannot say no to sexual temptation and be chaste and a hetrosexual priest can? We all have our own crosses to bear this one should not be make worse then any other. The Catechism does not condemn Homosexuals only homosexual behavior there is a big difference.


#13

I thought this was hilarious - at the bottom of page 2 in the NY Times online article titled “Gay Men Ponder Impact of Proposal by Vatican”…

nytimes.com/2005/09/23/national/23priests.html?th&emc=th

…there was a great little ad in the “Ads by Google” box:

Priests
Great deals on Priests Shop on eBay and Save!
www.eBay.com

Now if we’d only known that priests were merely a bid and a click away, we could have been filling the seminaries all these years!!! There’s no priest shortage on eBay!


#14

[quote=Tidal]I think the issue here is not if the Priest is homosexual or not or known homosexual or not. The issue is, is he celibate and living a life of Chastity. I care about his heart and his relationship to Jesus.

In the sex abuse problem of the Church it seems that homosexuality has been made the scape goat. there is a clear difference between homosexual persons and a pedophiles.

Being a homosexual is a cross to bear, but it still requires us to a life of chastely. I dont think they should be singled out.Does this say that a homosexual priest cannot say no to sexual temptation and be chaste and a hetrosexual priest can? We all have our own crosses to bear this one should not be make worse then any other. The Catechism does not condemn Homosexuals only homosexual behavior there is a big difference.
[/quote]

It will be interesting to see just how the document is worded - the Church has long maintained that homosexuality is not, in itself, a sin. Yet I understand that placing young men who have a sexual orientation towards their own sex in the close quarters of the seminary might certainly lead to sin. And it must be remembered that the sexual abuse scandal has not really been about pedophilia but rather homosexual attraction and wholly inappropriate actions by homosexual priests with adolescent boys, not pre-pubescent boys or girls. Many of the studies that I read stemming from the (ongoing) scandals indicate that homosexual men are 3-4 times more likely to engage in inappropriate sexual behavior than are men who identify themselves as heterosexual (and the numbers are even more disproportionate when dealing with priests who have taken vows of celibacy - those who identify themselves as heterosexual are far, far less likely to break the vow by having relations with a woman).

When my son was in seminary in the 1980’s-1990’s he “thought” that two of his fellow seminarians “might be” gay - but there was no proof that these young men were living anything but a chaste life. His only evidence was that these boys were somewhat effeminate.

It will be interesting to see exactly how the CCE will define homosexual and exactly how they will set the standard for determining who is and who is not homosexual. Will the Ordinary, like the corrections officer processing young Alex in “A Clockwork Orange” merely shout out “Are you now, or have you ever been, a homosexual?” (…for those of you who recall this - sigh! - 34 year old movie). Or will the results be dependent on further psychological analysis of the candidate? I’ve known homosexual priests who - to my knowledge - never had a problem leading a celibate life; and have also known those unable to do so. Same goes for heterosexual priests.

I think that the intention here is to be more vigilant in keeping those who would be more prone to sexual abuse from entering the priesthood in the first place. And while that may be controversial I can only see it, in the long run, as better for everyone.


#15

I think the poll needs to make the distinction between a practicing homosexual and a man with homosexual tendancies because I beleive the vatican is planning on excluding both. Personally I struggle with excluding the latter a bit. I think they can remain celebate and make good priests. The former definitely should be excluded. However I’ll go with whatever the magesterium decides they are much more aware of the problems involved in allowing men with these tendancies to be priests. Putting them in seminaries with other men when they have these tempatations likely is not good. At any rate the formation and discernment process need to be much better than they have been in the past.

Blessings


#16

[quote=silvano]Homosexual men must be banned from becoming a Priest.I just cannot stand it, when an obviously gay priest officiate the Mass who exhibits it, through his acts,voice,mannerism etc.He doesnt have any business there,even if he will be celibate all his life!
[/quote]

Okay! So you can’t stand an effeminate priest. But how do you know he’s a homosexual? He may be as straight as an arrow while the other priest who looks and acts like an NFL football player may actually be gay.

I think we’ve become kind of spooked because of these clerical abuse scandals but think back to the years following Vatican II when men were leaving the priesthood in droves in order to get married. It got so bad that Andrew Greeley said: “Remember the good old days when you didn’t panic because you saw your daughter talking to a priest?” In fact regarding the purportedly high number of gay priests one may ask, “Do we really have such a high percentage of gay Priests or is the real problem the low percentage of straight priests?”.


#17

FYI, there are two existing recent threads that have treated this subject very well:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=76025
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=76066


#18

Thank goodness our Pope has the courage the guts to stand for what is right is all I have to say!


#19

Check out this article…lots of statistics.

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/homosexual-priests1.htm


#20

[quote=thessalonian]I think the poll needs to make the distinction between a practicing homosexual and a man with homosexual tendancies because I beleive the vatican is planning on excluding both.
[/quote]

The Church has *always *excluded those who have no intention of fulfilling their vows of celebacy (including 'practicing" homosexuals, as well as “practicing” hetrosexuals).


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