Baptised with Holy Ghost and Fire


#1

This is a thread I’ve been pondering for a while.

Matthew and Luke wrote: I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.

Bapti and Fire

Mat 3:11, Luk 3:16

Bapti and Ghost

[size=2]Mat 28:19, Mar 1:8, Joh 1:33 Act 1:5, Act 2:38,
Act 10:47, Act 11:16

Bapti and Spirit

[size=2]Mat 3:16, Joh 1:33, Act 18:25, 1Co 12:13 [/size]

13 verses

So here the question for the mainly the Protestants like Atemi and Believers and others that tend to believe it only if it is EXPLICIT in Scripture.

Where is that magic verse that shows someone being Baptized with the Holy Spirit(Ghost) as foretold by John the Baptist?

Where is that magic verse that shows someone being Baptized with Fire as foretold by John the Baptist?

Acts 1 and 2 elude to but it is not explicit. There are verses that say they were “filled with the Holy Spirit” or 'Recieved the Holy Spirit" but not a one I can find that actually says “Baptized with the Holy Ghost” or “Baptized with the Holy Spirit”.

If it was foretold by John the Baptist, and it actually did happen, then why did not one single Writer write as it was foretold in the exact same wording?

And doing a thorough search of Scripture I can’t find any reference of being “Baptized with Fire” other than the Purgatorial Fire of 1Cor 3:15.

Okay, let us talk about it.[/size]


#2

Its good your brought this up, this issue comes around every now and then and it looks like you cleared it up. I made a post about this a while back.
forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=1731521&postcount=9


#3

“Explicit” is a relative term, but no, I never said I tend to believe anything only if it is “explicit” in Scripture.

You assume way too much here.

Where is that magic verse that shows someone being Baptized with the Holy Spirit(Ghost) as foretold by John the Baptist?

Where is that magic verse that shows someone being Baptized with Fire as foretold by John the Baptist?

“Magic verse”?

I personally do not have such a restrictive view of God’s Word.

Let’s follow the progression:

  1. John’s prediction:

“I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.”

  1. Christs confirmation and promise:

Act 1:5 "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

  1. The fulfillment:

Act 2:3 “They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.”

  1. Not just the Apostles:

Act 10:44 “Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message…For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God”

  1. Was this the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Peter, recalling the incident directly above, said:

Act 11:16 “Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Baptized with the Holy Spirit, the Apostles and beyond. This is explicit to me, BTW.

If it was foretold by John the Baptist, and it actually did happen, then why did not one single Writer write as it was foretold in the exact same wording?

"Exact same wording"?

"Magic verse"?

Where are you getting these “requirements” from?

I have never heard of such standards in which to view God’s Word. Christians should not be looking for “exact same wording” or “magic verses.”


#4

Atemi, you deny a lot of Catholic teaching because the "Exact Wording" does not exist.

You deny a lot of Catholic teaching because the “Magic Verses” those which explicitly declare something do not exist.

In your above verses which I refereneced as well, you are contending that being “filled” is the exact same thing as being “baptized”. Correct?

Tongues of fire expresses the “Baptism of Fire”?

If so, why do you debate anyone here at all?


#5

I guess I dont understand the problem here.


#6

Me neither.


#7

I deny nothing because the “exact wording” does not exist.

Again, huge assumptions.

I do deny some teachings because the whole concept is missing from the Scriptures and the witness of the early church.

You deny a lot of Catholic teaching because the “Magic Verses” those which explicitly declare something do not exist.

Like I said, I don’t live by “magic verses.”

If you do, have yourself a ball. What can I say?

In your above verses which I refereneced as well, you are contending that being “filled” is the exact same thing as being “baptized”. Correct?

Yup.

Peter himself said so.

What is so hard?

What exactly is the problem here?

Tongues of fire expresses the “Baptism of Fire”?

It would seem so, as probably most Catholics here would agree to as well.

If so, why do you debate anyone here at all?

Can you please connect the “baptism in fire” with posting here…as I don’t see the relevancy.


#8

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