Baptism in the Early Church


#1

I don’t know if this thread will get anywhere but it’s worth a try, but I want especially non-Catholics to help me on this one.

Lets all just consider for a moment that were are living let’s say somewhere in the early part of the 4th century and there is a discussion going on regarding Baptism, Mary, and the True Church. Remember, I do not have any bible with verses numbered to find what I want to know and I want to know the Truth and we know that Truth never changes.

A scenario and this deals with only one subject: I want to baptize my newborn but am told by some that I should not and others that I should. I am told that only full submersion is acceptable, others tell me that only sprinkling will do, while others tell me submersion or pouring is acceptable. Where do I go, how is it done and what formula is used? How is this issued settled? Remember again, there is no KJV or even the Guttenberg. Besides, I am a peasant and do not know how to read. To whom do I go or listen to? Please give me your replies and convince me that you have found the Truth and how do you know it’s the Truth.

I will sit back and watch and see who is still doing the same thing.


#2

While Christ was clearly baptized by John by immersion (which, though Christ did not need to be baptized, probably consituted the institution of the sacrament), so that the symbolism of baptism when Christ was baptized was a rising out of “the sea of damnable souls,” When Christ discussed the Apostle’s baptism at the the Last Supper, He described it as “bathing” – a washing of sins, seeming to justify pouring.

So, if we follow the lead of the Master Himself, either way is fine!


#3

BibleReader. Thank you very much, but remember we are in the early 4th century. How do you know how Jesus was baptised? Where did you get that information? Who told you?

Thanks and God Bless.


#4

ooooooh oooooooh I know the answer!!! :bounce:

But then again I’m Catholic, so I don’t think I count on this thread :crying:


#5

Once again, ex-baptist deacon in RCIA class!

I have been baptized as an infant by sprinkling, and as an adult by total immersion. ** Infant is preferred** but any method is acceptable with the proper Teaching from the Holy Apostalic Catholic Church, where the infant or adolescent is raised by a caring christian .

We can not endure the baptism that Christ underwent and so he suffered that baptism.

If in doubt of the answer then turn off the computor and work in your local parish helping others follow Christ’s teachings. Then say a prayer and I am certain you will get an answer.

God Bless you

J


#6

Just curious, where were you baptized by sprinkling? I have never know anyone who was, although some claim there are churches which do. Some fundamentalists saying ONLY immersion is correct, have said Catholics sprinkle, but I know we don’t. The water must run to show washing, even if only a small amount.

Kotton :slight_smile:


#7

mtr01

ooooooh oooooooh I know the answer!!!:bounce:

But then again I’m Catholic, so I don’t think I count on this thread:crying:

Would you care to answer and then lets see if others (i.e. non-catholics) will tell you what they think about you answer?


#8

mtr01

ooooooh oooooooh I know the answer!!!:bounce:

But then again I’m Catholic, so I don’t think I count on this thread:crying:

Would you care to answer and then lets see if others (i.e. non-catholics) will tell you what they think about your answer?


#9

Response for kotton

Yes you may ask. Sprinking is baptist slang for infant baptism. So I was baptized as an infant in a non-baptist church (prior to becoming a baptist in my 30’s). I could not tell you the exact quantity of water that was used. I think what I am saying is, it (the technique) is not important relative to the importance of the baptized following the gospel teachings.


#10

I wonder why there has been no reply from those who do not believe in infant baptism regarding post #1. Those that believe in Bible only? How would they solve this problem?:ehh:


#11

early 4th century. How do you know how Jesus was baptised? Where did you get that information? Who told you?

Oh um…okay…let me try this.

It’s 4th century. There is no Bible. How do I know how to baptize?

The only I answer I can think of is by word of mouth right? Um…the method of baptism passed down from the apostles. From what people saw them do, and taught their kids to do, and etc.

Is that right? Do I get a cookie? :nerd:


#12

[quote=TobyLue]mtr01

Would you care to answer and then lets see if others (i.e. non-catholics) will tell you what they think about your answer?
[/quote]

Where would I go to get correct information on Baptism if I lived in the first few centuries, before there was a bible? According to my resources I would find someone associated with the Church who either knew one of the Apostles (who were taught directly by Christ), or someone who was in turn taught by them (and so on, according to the era in which I lived). Basically, I would ask some one who can trace the origins of what they were taught about baptism directly back to Christ.


#13

Oh um…okay…let me try this.

It’s 4th century. There is no Bible. How do I know how to baptize?

The only I answer I can think of is by word of mouth right? Um…the method of baptism passed down from the apostles. From what people saw them do, and taught their kids to do, and etc.

Is that right? Do I get a cookie?

A BIG COOKIE FOR YOU:clapping:
Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (*Against Heresies *2:22:4 A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (*The Apostolic Tradition *21:16 A.D. 215]).

Augustine
** “What the universal Church holds, not as instituted [invented] by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority**. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond” (*On Baptism, Against the Donatists *4:24:31 A.D. 400]).

"The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (*The Literal Interpretation of Genesis *10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).

INSTRUCTION ON INFANT BAPTISM By the Sacred Cong. for the Doctrine of the Faith

  1. This teaching was constantly reaffirmed and defended during the Middle Ages. In particular, the Council of Vienna in 1312 stressed that the sacrament of Baptism has for its effect, in the case of infants, not just the forgiveness of sins but also the granting of grace and the virtues.[12] The Council of Florence in 1442 rebuked those who wanted Baptism postponed and declared that infants should receive “as soon as is convenient” (quam primum commode) the sacrament “through which they are rescued from the devil’s power and adopted as God’s children.”[13]

So, it seems that the early church taught and practiced infant baptism because the Apostles taught it. Then long, long after we had the Bible, it was affirmed in 1312, and again in 1442. So, now we get this thing about the Catholic Church making changes and not following the Bible, etc., etc. So those that do not believe in infant baptism, where do you get those teachings? Remember, the Apostles taught the early Church and Jesus taught the Apostles. So who taught you? If you say you only follow the Bible, then you are saying that the Bible goes against what Jesus taught.


#14

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