Baptist at my Door


#1

I just had a baptist at my door telling me they are not protestants. That I should read about the trail of blood. She also said she didn’t know why the pope thinks he is infallible and that he believes when he speaks that Christ is speaking through him. She also said something about how we call our priest father.Something about the popes hat that means vicor of Christ. That Peter was married and she wasn’t sure why popes and priests aren’t allowed to marry. She also said Catholics were protestants broken away from the baptist church. Unbelievable. I told her no matter how much you want to believe these things are true doesn’t make them true (talking about the Catholics being protestant). I told her not to get her information about Catholics from a protestant, because this is probably where she is getting her lies. She said she talked to a ex-Catholic that became a baptist. Anyway, I have a Mary in my front yard so she was definitely there to convert me. Any thoughts. I don’t know if I did a very good job of defending the church because she kept on throwing these off the wall comments about the Catholic Church at me. Any thoughts?

Where can i go to become a better apologist? I’ll do anything.


#2

Yes, we call our priests Father. It’s a term of affection; not their official title. So what?

Yes, the Pope is infallible under certain circumstances. Not all the time. And it doesn’t mean that he is without sin. We have had a great many very sinful Popes. Guess what. All of them upheld the Church’s teachings and passed it on to the next generation completely intact.

The Trail of Blood is a compelling work of fiction but that’s all it is. There is no historical basis for any of its claims.

I hope this helps. :smiley:


#3

Any Baptist worth his or her salt knows that the Trail of Blood is just a feeble attempt to claim apostolic succession in favor of the Baptists. All you have to do is look up on Wikipedia what some of the groups that supposedly are ‘linked’ to the Baptists actually believed; some of them were WAY out there - most of the Trail of Blood-ers don’t know that, they just take Mr Carroll at his word that these groups are the original Baptists. :rolleyes:

I’d link you to the website but I think I’d get banned for doing so since it’s VERY Anti-catholic. It’s published online, though. It comes up first on a Google search. Very VERY Anti-Catholic…just so you can’t say I didn’t warn you…


#4

That is what I pretty much what I said about the Church. I didn’t know how to react to her belief about the trail of blood. Crazy stuff.


#5

Voila! I found something I can link to - the Catholic response to The Trail of Blood. :thumbsup:

BTW, about three years ago I sent a friend a link to the Trail of Blood website, desperately trying to talk her OUT of becoming Catholic. :blush: And now I’m praying for an accelerated RCIA program so I can receive the Eucharist ASAP. Funny, huh? :smiley:


#6

Thanks Pixie Dust! This helps.

Also, awesome news about your conversion. :slight_smile:


#7

You may also find this article informative – and entertaining!:

“Ancient Baptists” and Other Myths
envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.4/coverstory.html


#8

Nicea, August 24, A.D. 325, 7:41 p.m. “That was powerful preaching, Brother Athanasius. Powerful! Amen! I want to invite any of you folks in the back to approach the altar here and receive the Lord into your hearts. Just come on up. We’ve got brothers and sisters up here who can lead you through the Sinner’s Prayer. Amen! And as this Council of Nicea comes to an end, I want to remind Brother Eusebius to bring the grape juice for tomorrow’s closing communion service . . .”*
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

ahem
:whistle:
Thanks for sharing that - I bookmarked it for later. My eyes are glazing over from too much screen reading tonight. :hypno:


#9

To reference what Pixie Dust mentioned:

Well what is she trying to prove with her trail of blood claims? Apostolic sucession? (She may not have used that term but ultimately that’s what it boils down to.)

Rather than you be defensive of your beliefs, let her explain what she believes. Why would it matter if Baptists did suceed the early church? Would there mean there is authority in the sucessors of the apostles? What would that mean today? Would that authority still exist? Why is that important?

Showing what these crazy groups believed is vital to disproving Trail of Blood, but do you want to disprove a book, or lead this lady? If I seek to win arguments I loose souls. If I seek to lead others to God then I leave things in His hands and let Him do the work.

If she shows evidence of valuing apostolic sucession, you can then show that the Church maintains it and then disprove the Trail of Blood. But if she doesn’t come to the conclusion (maybe through your questioning) that this is important then if you prove that the Church has this authority and the Trail of Blood is bogus, so what?


#10

When a Baptist or any one else who believes in the truth of the bible comes calling, you can ask:

  1. Do you believe Christ started a Church
  2. if yes to #1, ask how he organized it
  3. then ask how He intended to keep it from the gates of Hell and in the truth
  4. if the answer to #3 is the bible, then ask who had the authority to determine what books were in the bible

#11

#12

Want to become a better apologist?
The Bible Christian Society offers FREE Bible studies on Catholic teaching on CDs or downloadable MP3s.

San Juan Catholic Seminars has some of the best Apologetics materials you will find anywhere. You’ll find them on their website or here at the CA online store.

The Catholic Home Study Service offers FREE Catholic studies that are also some of the best I have found. (Hey, I’ve completed them all!:shrug: )

The CA online Library has a TON of great apologetics articles as well as back issues of This Rock Magazine to search through.

Scripture Catholic is a handy resource.

And like they said earlier…hang out here with us and you’ll learn bunches!

One thing that works pretty well is to use the forum search feature. Search this Forum (Apologetics) and see how many times we’ve answered whatever it is that you are hit with.

Lastly, if you get in a jam, PM me or e-mail me through my CAF profile and I’ll help all I can. There are a lot of faithful Catholics on here that will be glad to help you.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.


#13

Your Baptist visitor seemed to be badgering more than converting. Your a Christian so do you need converting?? I am Prodestant more specificly Assembly of God. I have a very devout Catholic friend. The more I discuss theology with him the more I realize Catholics and Prodestants have more in common than most think. Cathololics belive in the Triune God as do Prodestants. Jesus said you would know his followers by the love they show one another that speaks very poorly of her. If your wrong she should restore you gently as the Bible says and not beat you over the head with with history facts and fiction at your front door. And if she is wrong you should restore gently which seems to be your heart. We have slightly different doctrines but striving for the same God. We have to find our common ground to start working on restoration of the other and obviously she was out to fill her pride.
Sorry about that… from the Oklahoma Prodestant


#14

shes a nut
just kidding
Baptists dont go door to door really, Ive never heard of it
is she a neighbour maybe seeing mary on your lawn?
Tell her she should watch Tony Campolo (baptist preacher/speaker getting a touch liberal lately) but he spoke yrs ago about tradition and how baptists should follow catholics more on it.

ex: a wedding cermony when the couple says the final vows all the rest of the couples there say them in their heart again. Thus reinforcing everyones marriage and a fantastic tradition, he had more examples of why tradition was a good thing for a community.

just like catholics dont like to be painted try not to paint this woman. Talk about that what you agree on and she will lose some of her bias when she finds out you arent all that bad. :wink:

or she will remain struborn and a nut :smiley:


#15

i wasn’t visit by one but i have a bad experience with a neighbor that was baptist. then i went to this website BIBLICAL TRUTH FOR BAPTIST. GOT A FEW COPIES AND THAT WAS THE END OF THE STORY:D .also there are some books like david currie BORN FUNDAMENTALIST BORN AGAIN CATHOLIC.that help a lot understanding about there faith and beliefs. also has a lot of apologetics too:D ST. JUDE PRAYERSMay the Sacred Heart of Jesus be Adored, Glorified, Loved & Preserved throughout the world, now & forever. Sacred Heart of Jesus, please pray for me. Saint Jude, Worker of Miracles, please pray for me. Saint Jude, Helper of the Hopeless, please pray for me. Amen."
:slight_smile:


#16

One thing to always keep in mind is, keep the discussion focused. Don’t let anybody just keep tossing new charges into the pot. Just say something like “No, I’m not going to discuss Z right now, we’re still discussing X”. And keep discussing X until they admit that their understanding of it is less than perfect. Work on one misconception at a time, until they concede that maybe they are mistaken, or until they walk away. It’s much better to defend the Faith well on one charge, rather than to defend the Faith poorly on a whole passel of charges.


#17

Some Baptists claim that they go back to John the Baptist. The trail of blood is a joke because they identifly themselves with many hertics outside the church. And, many of those very hertics would not endorse or believe baptist doctrine at all.

check out this online catholic course
theworkofgod.org/Library/Apologtc/R_Haddad/Course/Contents.htm

concerning papal infalliblity, put what you really believe in context, and within the limits that were laid out.

Concerning the father thing, read their proof text, in context it is saying not to call anyone God the Father on earth. In pagan society, secular leaders were often called a god, not calling them a god is more inline with what Jesus said.

“Something about the popes hat that means vicor of Christ.”

This in her mind is referring to a Seventh Day Adventist lie, that the pope has a name in latin on his crown that equals 666. It is complete fabercation.

Concerning priests and marriage, that is not dogma, it is discipline that one chooses to take on theirselves. I recently read an article online about married priests, simply google married priest to find it.

google.com/search?hl=en&q=married+priest

“Catholics were protestants”, this is simply part of their made up history that they started out from John the Baptist, and eveyone else is a break away form them. When you make up your own history like that you tend to loose track of reality.

Tell her to pick up a good church history book set like Schaff’s history of the christian church, I think it is avilable to read online.

ccel.org/s/schaff/history/About.htm

invite her to a catholic bible study that is packed with knowledgable catholics, expect her to bring her ex-catholic or her pastor to try to set you straight. In the study, pick only one topic, and everytime they try to change the topic, remind them that they are off topic and we are discussing say, “Jesus founding the Church in John 20”.

To my knowledge there are no scriptures that say John started a church. They would likely appeal to his preaching and say well they must of gone somewhere after baptism, yep they did, back to the Jewish Temple is most likely. John the Baptist recongnised who Jesus was, but there is nothing to indicate that John knew at the time of his preaching that Jesus would die and rise again.


#18

not to mention, John was imprisoned and beheaded.


#19

The “Trail of Blood” is so false it isn’t even funny. I can’t believe that someone would have come up with something like that.


#20

Here’s the link to “Biblical Truth for Baptists”:
members.aol.com/uticacw/baptist/bibletruth.html

I think the name is kind of cool … and the Intro … a very nice turn-around:

“This web site contrasts the differences between the Holy Scriptures and the distinctive teachings of the various churches that call themselves Baptist.”


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