Baptist fasting dilemma


#1

I know this is nonsensical- but how would you recommend answering?

  • FACT 1: Vatican Council II abolished the Catholic practice of Friday abstinence from meat.
  • FACT 2: Prior to Vatican Council II, Roman Catholics who deliberately ate meat on Friday committed a ‘mortal sin’ and went to hell.
  • FACT 3: After Vatican Council II, Roman Catholics who eat meat of Friday do not commit a ‘mortal sin’ and can go to Heaven.
  • FACT 4: Jesus instituted Communion as part of a great feast (the Passover Seder).

The Dilemma

What about all those pre-Vatican II Roman Catholics who are now roasting in Hell for doing what their children do with impunity?

QUESTION: Is it morally correct that some fry in Hell and others do not fry in Hell when both did exactly the same thing? Yes No

QUESTION: Since the Catholic law has changed, will God release from Hell those who ate meat on Friday before Vatican II? Yes No

QUESTION: Is it possible that eating meat on Friday, either before or after Vatican II is irrelevant to God? Yes No

QUESTION: Why does Rome insist on fasting when Jesus instituted Communion as part of a great feast? Your Answer?

QUESTION: Is it possible that God keeps changing His mind, His Laws to keep in conformance with the mind and laws of Rome? Yes No

QUESTION: How do you reconcile a God who does not change His laws with a church that does? Your answer?


#2

First lets get the FACTS straight,

  • FACT 1: Vatican Council II abolished the Catholic practice of Friday abstinence from meat.

The Church changed the requirements for penitential practices from required Friday abstinence from meat to a personal penitential practice of ones choosing. Some personal act of penance is still required.

  • FACT 2: Prior to Vatican Council II, Roman Catholics who deliberately ate meat on Friday committed a ‘mortal sin’ and went to hell.

Catholics who deliberately without justifiable reason ignored the laws of the Church that are binding on all Catholics in violation of Christ’s words “He who hears you hears Me”. Violates the law of Christ who speaks through His Church.

  • FACT 3: After Vatican Council II, Roman Catholics who eat meat of Friday do not commit a ‘mortal sin’ and can go to Heaven.

Because the act of eating meat was never sinful in and of itself.

  • FACT 4: Jesus instituted Communion as part of a great feast (the Passover Seder).

Jesus instituted the Sacrament of Holy Communion at the Last Supper.

The Dilemma

What about all those pre-Vatican II Roman Catholics who are now roasting in Hell for doing what their children do with impunity?

Anyone pre or post Vatican II who freely and knowingly commits a mortal sin and dies un-repentant of it risks eternal Hell.

QUESTION: Is it morally correct that some fry in Hell and others do not fry in Hell when both did exactly the same thing? Yes No

Both will receive exactly the same punishment if they choose to ignore a precept of the Church who is speaking for Christ and knowingly commits a mortal sin and dies un-repentant of it.

QUESTION: Since the Catholic law has changed, will God release from Hell those who ate meat on Friday before Vatican II? Yes No

No, since if they are there they chose freely to commit mortal sin and were never sorry for it. God does not send anyone to eternal punishment who does not choose it for themselves.

QUESTION: Is it possible that eating meat on Friday, either before or after Vatican II is irrelevant to God? Yes No

No, Otherwise God would not have told Peter and later the other apostles with Peter “What you bind on earth, I will bind in Heaven and what you loose on earth, I will loose in Heaven.” The Successor to Peter and the Church have he ability and authority given by Christ to establish these binding laws.

QUESTION: Why does Rome insist on fasting when Jesus instituted Communion as part of a great feast? Your Answer?

Following the example of Christ, fasting for 40 days, fasting in preparation for feasts, etc.

QUESTION: Is it possible that God keeps changing His mind, His Laws to keep in conformance with the mind and laws of Rome? Yes No

What do you think “What you bind on earth, I will bind in Heaven” means?

QUESTION: How do you reconcile a God who does not change His laws with a church that does? Your answer?

The Catholic Church is the Mystical body of Christ. Christ lives in and speaks through His Church. The Church and Christ are united.


#3

WHY do you continue to torture yourself with this??? This person is very confused and lacks the basic reasoning skills that would make debating worthwhile.

How do YOU answer this FightingFat??? What is the central thing this person is missing in his argument that completely destroys it and makes it irrelevant?


#4

** FACT 1: Vatican Council II abolished the Catholic practice of Friday abstinence from meat.*

Fact: This is incorrect. It was not actually Vatican II, it was the revision of the Code of Canon Law in 1983 that did so. And, the Code still says that abstinence from meat is preferred, but that people can choose a different penance if they would like. Penance is still required. The Church now allows us to choose one instead of all doing the same one.

** FACT 2: Prior to Vatican Council II, Roman Catholics who deliberately ate meat on Friday committed a ‘mortal sin’ and went to hell.*

Fact: Wrong again. Any person who commits a mortal sin and fails to repent from it is in danger of Hell. Confession and repentance are open to all and therefore any person can go to Heaven whether they ate meat or not. Also, mortal sin requires full knowledge and free will.

** FACT 3: After Vatican Council II, Roman Catholics who eat meat of Friday do not commit a ‘mortal sin’ and can go to Heaven.*

Fact: The sinfulness has nothing to do with meat. Obeying authority or disobeying is where the sin lies.

** FACT 4: Jesus instituted Communion as part of a great feast (the Passover Seder).*

Yes, the Eucharist is a great feast.

What about all those pre-Vatican II Roman Catholics who are now roasting in Hell for doing what their children do with impunity?

If you disobeyed authority before Vatican II you were in a state of sin. If you disobey authority now you are in a state of sin. No one can disobey authority with impunity.

QUESTION: Is it morally correct that some fry in Hell and others do not fry in Hell when both did exactly the same thing? Yes No

Anyone who commits an unrepentant sin puts themselves outside the Kingdom of their own free will. Disobeying authority remains a serious sin, nothing has changed.

QUESTION: Since the Catholic law has changed, will God release from Hell those who ate meat on Friday before Vatican II? Yes No

Those who die of unrepentant mortal sin have made their irrevocable choice. It has nothing to do with changed law.

Is the US Government going to give back all the money paid in tickets by speeders going 65 back when the speed limit was 55 now that the speed limit has been raised to 70? Why do yesterday’s speeders get punished with tickets when today’s 65 mph drivers drive with impunity? Is the US government wrong to change the speed limit as circumstances change? Do they lack the authority to do so? Hmmm… seems like this guy’s meat-on-friday example is just plain ignorant and unfounded.

QUESTION: Is it possible that eating meat on Friday, either before or after Vatican II is irrelevant to God? Yes No

Why no. God himself gave the Church authority to bind and loose. He explicitly stated “he who hears you hears me”. There are so many verses on authority in the bible they leap off the page.

QUESTION: Why does Rome insist on fasting when Jesus instituted Communion as part of a great feast? Your Answer?

We do not fast AT the feast, we fast in preparation for the feast-- by following Jesus’ biblical example.

QUESTION: Is it possible that God keeps changing His mind, His Laws to keep in conformance with the mind and laws of Rome? Yes No

Since he stated he would bind in heaven what the Church binds on earth, yes.

*QUESTION: How do you reconcile a God who does not change His laws with a church that does? Your answer? *

God does not change the moral law, and neither does the church. God has changed the religous observance laws a number of times, they are not eternal and can be changed.


closed #5

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