Baptist needs information on Eucharist and holy orders!


#1

Hello all! My life has taken a turn for the better at home, my mom has finally accepted my choice to come into the Church. But we still have discussions about a few things, namely, why Catholics are so restrictive of communion. She feels like the Catholic church is elitist and hippocritical (we are better Christians than you! is the sentiment she expressed).

Basically, why are only the Catholic priests good enough to do it? I tried to explain the sacrament of holy orders, but I couldn’t do it convincingly. She seems to be on the fence about what exactly the Eucharist is, and doesn’t understand how if an Anglican priest says the words of consecration it is any different from the Catholic communion.

So, the two issues are: How come other priests aren’t “good enough” (her words) to consecrate, why can’t they receive in a Catholic service?

AND

Why isn’t the general confession said at an Anglican service good enough, why is a full confessional required?

I need some emergency info fast! She is very well versed in scripture, accepts the primacy of Peter, just is a little shaky about the Catholic church. They were a little mean back when she was marrying my Dad.

Thanks to all!

-revelations:)


#2

I’m no theologian, but perhaps you could explain it to her in relation to the other sacraments like marriage, for example. The sacrament of marriage gives the couple certain graces and gifts, one of which is to “be fruitful and multiply”. Outside of marriage this would be imoral, but with this sacrament comes “privilages”. Therefore, the sacrament of Holy Orders contains it’s own graces and gifts that give the priest abilities that others, outside of this vocation, do not have.

So, the two issues are: How come other priests aren’t “good enough” (her words) to consecrate, why can’t they receive in a Catholic service?

As far as why others cannot receive the Eucharist, you could explain that one must be properly disposed to receive Jesus. Even catholics are not to receive if they are aware of an unconfessed mortal sin. So obviously the Sacrament of Reconciliation is one that must be frequented to make sure that one is properly disposed. Since people of other faiths do not avail themselves of Confession, they would not be in a proper state to receive.

Why isn’t the general confession said at an Anglican service good enough, why is a full confessional required?

General confession is only able to be used in extreme circumstances. Such as soldiers on a battlefield where there is no time to here individual confessions.

I need some emergency info fast! She is very well versed in scripture, accepts the primacy of Peter, just is a little shaky about the Catholic church. They were a little mean back when she was marrying my Dad.

Since she is versed in scripture and accepts the primacy of Peter you could try the old “whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven, whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven.” This verse has always been a powerful statement, to me at least, as to the authority granted by Christ to the Chruch.


#3

Jesus founded his church on Peter and all ordained catholic bishops, priests, etc…are traceable thru this line of succession. Other denominations do not have this succession and therefore makes what they offer invalid.


#4

The restriction of who can receive the eucharist in the Catholic church is that because to not recognize who it is you are receiving puts your soul at a great risk of death. These are the words of Saint Paul. If the eucharist was only a symbol, why would he have been so concerned with making sure you were in a state of grace before consuming it ? :wink:


#5

First ask your mother to accept my apology on behalf of Catholics who make disparaging comments about other religions, which has at times included me. Second tell her disrespect of others is not what the church teaches.

All people sin and the teaching is the person must make a personal verbal apology of that sin to God (in the presents of a Priest) repenting the sin is required to rejoin the communion ceremony

She feels like the Catholic church is elitist and hippocritical (we are better Christians than you! is the sentiment she expressed).

this is people not the church

Basically, why are only the Catholic priests good enough to do it? I tried to explain the sacrament of holy orders, but I couldn’t do it convincingly. She seems to be on the fence about what exactly the Eucharist is, and doesn’t understand how if an Anglican priest says the words of consecration it is any different from the Catholic communion.

a couple of things first the Holy Spirit was breathed into the Apostles (Act 1:8) This is why only those in direct succession (Acts 6:6) of that action can consecrate the Eucharist… Second The Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ which we eat as acceptance of the New Covenant. This is not symbolic for us. At the last supper Jesus commanded this action. At the last supper the chemistry did not change nor does it change today, however god is not confined by chemistry. God’s presence in the bread and wine is why we are so particular about the respect we pay to the Eucharist

So, the two issues are: How come other priests aren’t “good enough” (her words) to consecrate, why can’t they receive in a Catholic service?

Their worship of God is good. They are not in apostolic succession so they cannot consecrate. We ask they not receive until they follow the fullness of Christ’s teaching which includes honoring the “bind and loose” held within those of apostolic succession (Matthew 16: 18-19)

AND

Why isn’t the general confession said at an Anglican service good enough, why is a full confessional required?

Sin is an individual action and requires individual confession

I need some emergency info fast! She is very well versed in scripture, accepts the primacy of Peter, just is a little shaky about the Catholic church. They were a little mean back when she was marrying my Dad.

Thanks to all!

-revelations:)

Feelings if exclusion are common and show catholic problems, she is welcome in the church. All churches have their problems with holier than thou parishioners ask her to ignore obnoxious people

Hope that helps


#6

The Catholic Church follows the same practice laid out in the Early Church. In the Didche from the end of the First century says that no one is to be admitted to the Eucharist unless they profess to believe ALL that “we” believe.

Anyone can utter the words but nothing happens unless the man celebrating the Eucharist has been validly Ordained by the Laying on of Hands of a Validly Ordained Bishop, in valid Apostolic Succession


#7

Get a copy of the “Lambs Supper” and Scott Hahn’s conversion story. Also, get the “Forth Cup” cd by Scott Hahn…you could get copies of this from several sources online for free. Book costs about $15 ours was hard cover and cost about $20.
There are several good sources on catholic.com [this website]

Other good sources to reemember:
salvationhistory.org/
chnetwork.org/

Listen to these several times.

There are a series of shows that played on EWTN too:
Hail Holy Queen
The Lamb’s Supper

about 4 to 6 hours each…more than enough for yourself.
There are so many apologists that were once preachers/ministers. I know some myself from my own former faith. The sources cover the knucklehead Catholics that act like they can do anything they want. I left many years ago because of that…but discovering the Ancient Church Father and the didache and actually reading them floored me. I knew right then that I had to come home and told the wife I had to even if it meant us not being together…fortunately she was floored the same as me. This was before even bothering to read Catholic webpages. The true presence, non-submerging baptism and requirement, confession, etc. are all there. Paul warns Timothy not to “lay hands” on just anyone… Sorry, but that’s more than likely Holy Orders. Celibacy is a discipline that is an entirely too deep thing to get into. Approximately 20% of all Catholic priests are married. :eek: We forget about the Eastern Catholics and the Anglican converts. This goes without mentioning the Holy Orthodox [catholic] Church with 90% married priests. Too much… Everything your family is having problems with is actually in scripture and can be referenced. You just need to learn how to find it and explain it as best you can. But if your family is like mine, you’d be better just handing them the CD’s and books with the pamphlets with the websites and references. It’s an age old problem.

Welcome Home!


#8

I explain it to people like this…

Think of it like one really really long game of tag.
It started back in the year 33 ad. and continues on now 2008.
Jesus made Peter “it”. Peter tagged Linus and so on and so on to Benedict.
Each bishop was tagged “it” by another bishop,so if you were not tagged “it” you are not even part of the “game”.
Priests are tagged (by laying on of the hands) by a bishop and that is why they are part of the “game” (Christ’s church).

Protestant denominations did not like how the “game” (Christ church) was being played so they quit (in 1517) and started making up their own games (churches) with their own set of rules.

Or you can think of it like this…

We were all part of the Body of Christ.(before 1517)
Jesus is the Head.We make up the Body.
Some toes,arms,fingers and some ears.
When the Body was not feeling well,
some members amputated themselves from the rest of the Body.
Well an amputated member can not survive on its own…
(it cannot grow a new body) so it dies .
But the Body can survive without the amputated members it healed and continues to live.

Can you tell I teach children?:blush:
Anyway I hope this helps.


#9

Scripture Catholic
scripturecatholic.com/

The List of Popes
newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

The Catholic Encyclopedia
newadvent.org/cathen/index.html

History of the Roman Catholic Church
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Roman_Catholic_Church

EWTN (has a great library and live video and talks)
ewtn.com/

Scott Hahn
salvationhistory.com/


#10

Those are actually two very very good analogies. I will keep them in my mind! :smiley:


#11

:blush: huh … yea I can tell.


#12

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