Based on who?

I read that the church was bases on Peter. And also the mystic union deals with the Blessed Virgin. Who is the church built on? Peter or Mary?

Bill

It is built on Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the builder. Jesus Christ built His Church, as He said He would (Mt 16:18) on Cephas (translated Peter).
He is also known as Simon Peter, Cephas (Greek: Κηφᾶς) and Kepha (Hebrew: כיפא‎). Both Cephas and Kepha also rock.

Yeah but Jesus said “upon this rock I build my church” that’s supposed to be Peter. And the church is the Bride. Now does taht have anything to do with Mary?

Bill

No.

Mary is given special honour as the mother of God, that’s all. The church is not centered on her, although she does have a special place in our hearts.

The Church was founded by Jesus Christ and He chose Peter to be His Rock, the foundation stone upon which He would and has built His Church and the gates of the nether world haven’t yet prevailed. Mary, His Mother and His Queen is also ours because she is Mother to all the living, both here and now and those who have departed this life either in Heaven or in Purgatory. She is as much the Mother of Peter and the Apostles as she is our today. Her role in salvation history is unique. The mystics speak of her in various ways and some of these ways can be confusing to those who aren’t familiar with the sentiment and intimacies associated with her and her children. The study of Mary as a way to come closer to her Son, our Lord, Jesus Christ is a winning way if you ask me, but that is because I am partial.

Is there a particular reason you are asking this question and could you flesh out your concerns a little better? That way we can find out what you are confused about between Mary and Peter.

Glenda

Could you clarify what you mean by “mystic union”?

In regards to Mary’s relationship to the Church, she is called the “Mother of the Church”
(she is the mother of Jesus / the Church is the Body of Christ / …)
963 Since the Virgin Mary’s role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being **truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer… She is ‘clearly the mother of the members of Christ’ … since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head." ** "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."

964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. “This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death”; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

[INDENT]Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: “Woman, behold your son.”

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2C.HTM#2X[/INDENT]

It does not.

Jesus established the kingdom of God, and kingdoms have Royal Courts.

Jesus is the king. (cf. Luke 1:28)
Peter is his royal steward (cf. Mt. 16:18-19, Is. 22:20-22)
Mary is the Gebirah - the mother of the king or Queen Mother.

Mystic Union.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

The Wikipedia article is too general and broad. And if you read it, you’ll see that the experience of “mystic union” doesn’t refer only to Mary; there are others who also have experienced mystical union with God.

When you say “mystic union deals with the Blessed Virgin”, are you referring to Mary’s relationship with God/Jesus? Or are you referring to her relationship with the Church?
In other words, mystic union of the Blessed Virgin with _____________ . (fill in the blank) :slight_smile:

Mary’s relationship with Jesus and her status with the Church. So I guess I mean both.

Bill

Mary is the mother of both; that is her relationship.
As far as “mystical union” with Jesus and also the Church, I would say she experienced/experiences it with both. (Definition of “mystical” according to the following definition: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mystical)

But, it has never been Church teaching that the Catholic Church is based/built upon Mary as its foundation. Her role/relation to the Church is that of “mother”, not “base” or “foundation”.
In understanding her role as mother, it helps to look at the role a loving mother provides in an earthly family – and then transform those earthly activities to heavenly activities.

So Jesus is the foundation through the successors of Peter then?

Bill

If you check out the Scripture passages using the word “foundation” in regards to the Church, there are 2 that I am aware of:
Ephesians 2:19 & 20So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellowcitizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Revelations 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Within that “foundation”, Peter had a special role - that of “rock”. The final visible authority in regards to Church doctrine and regulation rests in Peter and his successors. God exercises control thru the Pope. Our trust in the infallibility of the Pope has nothing to do with trust in the man who is pope, but rather our trust in the power and will of God - that not only is He able, but that He will control/ensure that the head of His Church will not proclaim error.

In regards to our "faith" (who we believe in and trust as our God and Saviour) our “foundation” is Jesus.

In the Epistle you mention it says “saints” and “prophets”. What is meant there? Prophets of the OT or new Church? And the saints, what saints? The church was just beginning. Who were they calling saints? I am aware yes of our present beatification process and canonization. But things where not done like that then?

Bill

What translation are you using?
The Greek word in Eph. 2:20 is the same one used in Mt. 10:2 (and many other verses). It is “apostles”, not “saints”.

Mt. 10:2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is calledPeter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother;

Ephesians 2:20Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Bill

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2%3A20&version=RSVCE

That’s the version I use also. I was wondering which version said “saints and prophets” instead of “apostles and prophets”. Maybe I misunderstood your previous post #17.

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