Basic Adventist Answers


#1

I have noticed alot of ideas and questions about Adventism and our beliefs. Now, dont attack me with questions because I’m not that fast a typer, but if you have any basic questions on our fundamental beliefs, go ahead and ask. Maybe we can come to a better understanding of each other. :thumbsup:


#2

I don’t want to be uncharitable or rude, but I can see the point of say Orthodox, Muslims, Jews and Catholics trying to create a dialougue, or even some Protestants. But SDA’s??? I’m not sure I see a point. Your belief system is simply an outright attack on our most sacred beliefs. There’s not much room for serious dialougue there so why bother? There’s never going to be ecumenism between Catholics and SDA’s.

You guys think our Church is the whore of Babylon and the Pope is the anti-Christ, we think it is Christ’s Church he left us, I mean really what’s there to talk about? We completely disagree and never will come to a middle ground…

Again I apologize if I come off rude, it’s just that your beliefs are so highly offensive to me, It’s difficult for me to speak with SDA’s and mask everything. I feel about the issue. It’s tantamount to a member of the KKK going to the NAACP message board and being like “hey guys, just wanted to see if you guys need any questions answered”.

I’ll get blasted for this and probably rightfully so, again I apologize God Bless!


#3

First define how you understand “spirit of prophecy” and do you believe that the apostles had it?


#4

[quote=Mike_D30]I don’t want to be uncharitable or rude, but I can see the point of say Orthodox, Muslims, Jews and Catholics trying to create a dialougue, or even some Protestants. But SDA’s??? I’m not sure I see a point. Your belief system is simply an outright attack on our most sacred beliefs. There’s not much room for serious dialougue there so why bother? There’s never going to be ecumenism between Catholics and SDA’s.

You guys think our Church is the whore of Babylon and the Pope is the anti-Christ, we think it is Christ’s Church he left us, I mean really what’s there to talk about? We completely disagree and never will come to a middle ground…

Again I apologize if I come off rude, it’s just that your beliefs are so highly offensive to me, It’s difficult for me to speak with SDA’s and mask everything. I feel about the issue. It’s tantamount to a member of the KKK going to the NAACP message board and being like “hey guys, just wanted to see if you guys need any questions answered”.

I’ll get blasted for this and probably rightfully so, again I apologize God Bless!
[/quote]

That made me so sad. I’m sorry you feel that way. The church as an institution, is what we sadly identify that way. Not any specific Catholic or branch. You are not hated or despised by any true member of our church. And I dont know if this will help or make it worse, but we believe that it is only the people higher up that KNOW and teach others wrong that will be held accountable. Therefore the idea that Adventism hates Catholics is so far from the truth, it makes me want to either laugh or cry. Nobody in my denomination enjoys naming the Whore of Babylon. Many evangelists and pastors came from the Catholic church and lift when they discovered these things. But for you or anyone else to feel that way about us really saddens my heart. You are loved by Jesus and us. I hope that helped a little.


#5

[quote=Daniel Marsh]First define how you understand “spirit of prophecy” and do you believe that the apostles had it?
[/quote]

Absolutely. The spirit of prophesy is something that has always existed inside God’s church. The apostles had it, we believe another had it as well. But with her aside, it is a tool of God to strengthen his church. There are several key pointers of a prophet and so far, we have only found one that fits all the criteria, so her works are considered in manners of faith. But to say that she wrote our new bible or other ideas I’ve heard. We read it about as much as Catholics read Canons and Traditions. OK? Thank you. :wink:


#6

Why do you believe that we must keep the Sabbath when Jesus instituted a New Covenant at the Last Supper?

The only Commandment Jesus never restated is the Commandment about the Sabbath:

“And Jesus replied, You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself” (Mt. 19:18–19). “It is written: ‘The Lord your God shall you worship, and him alone shall you serve’” (Mt. 4:10). Finally, “But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne” (Mt. 5:34).

And how do you interpret what Paul says in Colossians 2:17–19: “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”


#7

[quote=SDAgirl]That made me so sad. I’m sorry you feel that way.** The church as an institution, is what we sadly identify that way**. Not any specific Catholic or branch.

I hope that helped a little.
[/quote]

Sadly it doesn’t, as a Catholic I am inseprable from my Church, as we believe Christ founded the Church. And attack and judgment on my Church, is an attack and judgment on me. A condemnation on my Church is a condemnation on me. If my Church is the whore of babylon, I am nothing but a pagan idolator, and deserve nothing but hellfire. Do you see how there just is no room for dialogue? Your belief system is too hate filled towards mine, for me to “keep an open mind”. I’m sorry.

God Bless!


#8

Let’s try it this way: My question to our adventists is: Is Catholicism Christian? Note I didn’t ask, “Are Catholics Christian?”, Or “Can Catholics be saved?”

If you answer yes, then dialogue can continue.

If no, it cannot because we have no common ground. As the CA tract on Adventism puts it:

By virtue of their valid baptism, and their belief in Christ’s divinity and in the doctrine of the Trinity, Seventh-Day Adventists are both ontologically and theologically Christians.

So, as it is binding on the Catholic to accept that Adventism is Christian, but the Adventist can go around on the supposition that Catholicism is not, this is anti-Catholicism and as such discussion is moot as we don’t agree on very basic principles.


#9

[quote=Eden]Why do you believe that we must keep the Sabbath when Jesus instituted a New Covenant at the Last Supper?

The only Commandment Jesus never restated is the Commandment about the Sabbath:

“And Jesus replied, You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself” (Mt. 19:18–19). “It is written: ‘The Lord your God shall you worship, and him alone shall you serve’” (Mt. 4:10). Finally, “But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne” (Mt. 5:34).

And how do you interpret what Paul says in Colossians 2:17–19: “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”
[/quote]

Whew! OK. Well, first of all we put a difference between the Mosaic law and the 10 commandments. One set was written in stone (twice) the others were not. Wherever in the Bible Jesus refers to the law we believe God’s Law to be the 10 commandments. When it says the whole of the law is this Love your God and love your neighbor, we see that as the 2 groups of commandments. One side says “love your god, do not make or pray to idols, to not take gods name in vain, remember my sabbath day.” The other side is instructions on treating others, “do not kill obey your parents, do not kill do not covet etc.” That is what we interpret that to mean, the whole of the law is love God and love your neighbor.

Now, in regard to the new moons and sabbath days, we interpret that to be speaking about the mosaic laws which kept Passover, Yom Kippur, etc. And the feasts of the new moon. We feel that those are no longer applicable because of Jesus, and that is what Paul was speaking of. In the last verses of Isaiah it says that the Sabbath will be observed in Heaven after judgement. So that is the basis of our belief on the issue. I hope that helped.

I will have to come back to this later. I have to start my home-schooling of the kiddos! god bless you and I’ll check back when I can. thank you for your politeness.


#10

If you answer yes, then dialogue can continue.

I’m glad we got that out of the way! Of course Catholics are christian! do you pray to Jesus? This is why I opened this page. There are beliefs about the church that are not accurate. Like the last poster said, my church is too filled with hate. I have never hated a Catholic in my life. Neither does anyone in my denomination, if they are a true Adventist. Any Adventist who spreads hate, should not be so named. And to the last post, yes an institution can be seperated from an individual. We are in a war. If you do not agree with it, are you therefore not American? Or are you relying on the establishment to have valid reasons to go to war, and if they are not valid, it is on their head, right? Same principle. :slight_smile:


#11

[quote=SDAgirl]If you answer yes, then dialogue can continue.

I’m glad we got that out of the way! Of course Catholics are christian! do you pray to Jesus? This is why I opened this page. There are beliefs about the church that are not accurate. Like the last poster said, my church is too filled with hate. I have never hated a Catholic in my life. Neither does anyone in my denomination, if they are a true Adventist. Any Adventist who spreads hate, should not be so named. And to the last post, yes an institution can be seperated from an individual. We are in a war. If you do not agree with it, are you therefore not American? Or are you relying on the establishment to have valid reasons to go to war, and if they are not valid, it is on their head, right? Same principle. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Very good. I guess my only question would be the Adventist doctrinal teaching on Catholicism. Are you saying an Adventist in good standing can not hold the opinion that Catholicism is not Christian? If so, by what authority?


#12

Like the last poster said, my church is too filled with hate. I have never hated a Catholic in my life. Neither does anyone in my denomination, if they are a true Adventist.

That is the problem though. I know Adventists don’t “hate” Catholics, and I as a Catholic don’t “hate” Adventists. Like I’ve said on the other thread, I’ve got Adventist friends. The one-on-one senario isn’t a problem.

And to the last post, yes an institution can be seperated from an individual. We are in a war. If you do not agree with it, are you therefore not American? Or are you relying on the establishment to have valid reasons to go to war, and if they are not valid, it is on their head, right? Same principle.

Except that is not how Catholics believe the Church works. You see, the Church isn’t just some club or organization-it is the Mystical Body of Christ. Baptism leaves a permanent mark on your soul, so a Catholic is baptized a Catholic and can never “renounce” their Catholicism. They may not practice it, they may not believe it, but they were baptized into it. This is also true for non-Catholics and non-Christians (in a more complicated means).

The Catholic Church is therefore, NOT a mere human institution-it is a divine institution. I can renounce my American citizenship if I want to and will no longer be an American. I cannot do so with the Church.

So, when you guys get frustrated at some of us who say that the Adventist church “hates” Catholics-that is why. If you are so strongly against the doctrines and dogmas of the Church-you are against us. You CANNOT separate a Catholic from his Church without making a heretic, schismatic or an apostate out of him.

Now, I don’t take such claims against Holy Mother Church as “personal” because I realize that many folks just don’t get it and sincerely think they are arguing against some faceless hierarchy of some sect amongst various sects.

But you must realize, when E. G. White and her cronies call the pope the anti-christ (and I realize other protestants do too, and I also realize that the office of the papacy is the “anti-christ” not necessarily the current person of Benedict XVI etc. etc.) and the Church the whore of Babylon-those are fightin’ words. When your church circulates obvious falsehoods like various phrases in Latin pertaining to the Papacy in some (often imagined) way that add up to “666” as some sort of “evidence” against the Papacy, we are not exactly amused.

Our Church is not very happy when another group tries to lead away members of the Flock with lies and sensationalism, nor are us members of the Flock amused who experience it. It is really easy to build up lies and urban legends about the Catholic Church, but it takes much more effort to tear them down.


#13

Do SDA’s believe the fullness of the Gospel was around before EGW came along? For example in the years say from 100AD to 1200AD was there anyone they considered Christian, any specific names of people they could point to that were preaching the Gospel as SDA’s believe?


#14

Rev 19

9Then the angel said to me, "Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ " And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

10At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

Ok lets see who has the Testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

John 15:26
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

who is John 15:26 written to?

How is the spirit of prophecy transferred to descendends of the church?

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus

3 John 1:12
Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone—and even by the truth itself. We also speak well of him, and you know that our testimony is true.

Revelation 1:2
who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:9
One like a Son of Man ] I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

3 John 1:12
Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone—and even by the truth itself. We also speak well of him, and you know that our testimony is true.

Revelation 1:2
who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:9
One like a Son of Man ] I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Would not those with the spirit of prophecy be those that the apostles laid their hands on? Would not those who are in line of succession of the apostles be the ones with the spirit of prophecy?


#15

[quote=ComradeAndrei]That is the problem though. I know Adventists don’t “hate” Catholics, and I as a Catholic don’t “hate” Adventists. Like I’ve said on the other thread, I’ve got Adventist friends. The one-on-one senario isn’t a problem.

Except that is not how Catholics believe the Church works. You see, the Church isn’t just some club or organization-it is the Mystical Body of Christ. Baptism leaves a permanent mark on your soul, so a Catholic is baptized a Catholic and can never “renounce” their Catholicism. They may not practice it, they may not believe it, but they were baptized into it. This is also true for non-Catholics and non-Christians (in a more complicated means).

The Catholic Church is therefore, NOT a mere human institution-it is a divine institution. I can renounce my American citizenship if I want to and will no longer be an American. I cannot do so with the Church.

So, when you guys get frustrated at some of us who say that the Adventist church “hates” Catholics-that is why. If you are so strongly against the doctrines and dogmas of the Church-you are against us. You CANNOT separate a Catholic from his Church without making a heretic, schismatic or an apostate out of him.

Now, I don’t take such claims against Holy Mother Church as “personal” because I realize that many folks just don’t get it and sincerely think they are arguing against some faceless hierarchy of some sect amongst various sects.

But you must realize, when E. G. White and her cronies call the pope the anti-christ (and I realize other protestants do too, and I also realize that the office of the papacy is the “anti-christ” not necessarily the current person of Benedict XVI etc. etc.) and the Church the whore of Babylon-those are fightin’ words. When your church circulates obvious falsehoods like various phrases in Latin pertaining to the Papacy in some (often imagined) way that add up to “666” as some sort of “evidence” against the Papacy, we are not exactly amused.

Our Church is not very happy when another group tries to lead away members of the Flock with lies and sensationalism, nor are us members of the Flock amused who experience it. It is really easy to build up lies and urban legends about the Catholic Church, but it takes much more effort to tear them down.
[/quote]

The church has as much evidence to support their position as you do to support yours. It is based on faith in what you believe to be true. At the end of the day, we will all be judged according to our obedience to the best of our knowledge. Just spending your time here on this site shows that you are involved with matters of faith consistently, which I applaud. I am merely trying to dispell certain thoughts about our FUNDAMENTAL beliefs. We could argue doctrinal differences all day. Thats not why I started this thread. I just want to lay rest some rumors like some of the ones above like “Adventists don’t think Catholics are Christian” That way, you can know that the above things are rumors and not actually taught. Just trying to help a little, not convert anyone.


#16

[quote=Daniel Marsh]Rev 19

9Then the angel said to me, "Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ " And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

10At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

Ok lets see who has the Testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

John 15:26
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

who is John 15:26 written to?

How is the spirit of prophecy transferred to descendends of the church?

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus

3 John 1:12
Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone—and even by the truth itself. We also speak well of him, and you know that our testimony is true.

Revelation 1:2
who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:9
One like a Son of Man ] I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

3 John 1:12
Demetrius is well spoken of by everyone—and even by the truth itself. We also speak well of him, and you know that our testimony is true.

Revelation 1:2
who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:9
One like a Son of Man ] I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Would not those with the spirit of prophecy be those that the apostles laid their hands on? Would not those who are in line of succession of the apostles be the ones with the spirit of prophecy?
[/quote]

I believe that the apostles were given special gifts that were to be used to stabilize the early church. To say that they themselves can transfer that gift is what we have a problem with. It is a matter of faith to believe that they were imparted that gift. It is hard to have faith in some things these days, so good for you for having some. So many crave faith like that, but dont know how to start. Maybe we as children in Christ, can find these and help them along? God Bless you.


#17

That way, you can know that the above things are rumors and not actually taught.

So, what are “rumors” and what is “true”? What is your church’s real stance on the Catholic Church? What are your official doctrines (or whatever) concerning this?


#18

[quote=Catholic Dude]Do SDA’s believe the fullness of the Gospel was around before EGW came along? For example in the years say from 100AD to 1200AD was there anyone they considered Christian, any specific names of people they could point to that were preaching the Gospel as SDA’s believe?
[/quote]

We believe that the true fullness of the gospel was not re-achieved until around the 1700s. Luther, Zwingli, Huss, etc. all had a piece of inspiration which was pieced together. Hence the different denominations. When Luthers followers heard Huss’s message, they would not believe so another church was born and so on. What the Adventist church did was look to the Bible, determine what they thought to be the core truths, and create a faith based on the best they could do with the best knowledge they had. I’m sure a scholar could explain it better, I’m just a stay at home mom. lol But thats my answer to the best of my knowledge.


#19

Who is Ellen Gould White and what importance does she have in your church?


#20

[quote=ComradeAndrei]So, what are “rumors” and what is “true”? What is your church’s real stance on the Catholic Church? What are your official doctrines (or whatever) concerning this?
[/quote]

Basically, we are Protestant so you know what that means. We have a problem with the Pope and his proclaimed rights. Thats not news. But the idea has been postulated that Adventists dislike Catholics THEMSELVES, and do not consider them even Christian, which is ridiculous! Those are the “rumors” I am trying to dispell. It is possible to dislike a system and not its members. Although I have been told several times it isn’t in here ! But for my own PERSONAL thoughts, I CAN dislike a system and not its constituents. And I’m sure many others can too. If I disliked anyone, why would I bother trying to speak to you on behalf of my church regarding these rumors? I think we have core issues in common, and these we can discuss, yes?


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