Beer and the Church


#1

So I got into it with one of my Protestant friends over this the other day, and I was wondering what the thoughts of the group are. My Protestant friend says that drinking is a sin (he is a Southern Baptist type) and he says that this extends to using wine in communion. He had a particularly grand heart attack (kidding) when he notice that I was drinking Weihenstephaner which is a German beer. On the bottle, it notes that it is the oldest brewery in the world, and one founded by a bunch of monks. (I love monks…crazy fun guys). In any event, I think that he is full of it, but I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Thanks!

Brad


#2

[quote=sadie2723]So I got into it with one of my Protestant friends over this the other day, and I was wondering what the thoughts of the group are. My Protestant friend says that drinking is a sin (he is a Southern Baptist type) and he says that this extends to using wine in communion. He had a particularly grand heart attack (kidding) when he notice that I was drinking Weihenstephaner which is a German beer. On the bottle, it notes that it is the oldest brewery in the world, and one founded by a bunch of monks. (I love monks…crazy fun guys). In any event, I think that he is full of it, but I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Thanks!

Brad
[/quote]

I’m a Protestant, but I don’t think drinking is a sin. I think there is a verse that prohibits drunkenness, but drinking wine or beer every now and then is not sinful. Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding in Cana.


#3

Drinking alcoholic beverages is not a sin if it’s done in moderation.

Your friend doesn’t know what he’s missing :rotfl: :rotfl:


#4

Drinking (in moderation) is, of course, no sin. Alcohol has always been used for Communion wine (note wine-not grape juice…the first to pasturize grape juice was welches, i believe…if you don’t even a big vat of grapes will, eventually ferment.)

On another note, wonderful beer choice. I am very partial to Paulaner, Weihenstephaner, and Erdinger!


#5

[quote=Sanctus]Drinking (in moderation) is, of course, no sin. Alcohol has always been used for Communion wine (note wine-not grape juice…the first to pasturize grape juice was welches, i believe…if you don’t even a big vat of grapes will, eventually ferment.)

On another note, wonderful beer choice. I am very partial to Paulaner, Weihenstephaner, and Erdinger!
[/quote]

Thanks! I love Weihenstephaner and Pauaner, but you should try Franziskaner if you have not done so. One of the best ever. Thanks for your comments!

Brad


#6

Many a fine tipple was invented by the religious communities.

Benedictine was invented during the Renaissance when a Venetian monk who was from the Abbey of Fécamp , Dom Bernardo Vincelli, invented a liquor from about 27 plants & spices from the 4 corners of the globe. This liquor was highly regarded in the court of King François I, and the drink, which by now has become famous, was produced by the Benedictine monks up until the end of the 18th century.

Lager was invented by a group of Bavarian Monks in the 1800’s.

Jesus Christ used wine at the Last Supper which he turned in to His Precious Blood.

Jesus turned water in to wine.

Drinking alcahol in moderation is not sinful.


#7

I dance, I drink beer, and that is why I’m Catholic. Just kidding.

Seriously, I’m always amazed that these people are so close to God that they can make something a sin that Jesus Christ did. I guess maybe their Jesus wasn’t sinless.

Think about this too. The line on what is moderation is probably farther down the line than many think today. At the wedding of Cana, Jesus made wine after the people had had enough such that they could no longer tell that it was no longer the “good stuff.” Now for a person who doesn’t drink much wine, that might not be too far down. But in Israel at that time, wine was served w/ with every nightly meal as it is in Italy today. I’ve been in Rome and the Italians can still tell if they are drinking the 'good stuff" after five or six glasses.

If it had been sinful to drink the wine at that stage of the wedding feast, do you think Mary would have asked him to make it and Jesus would have agreed?

I remember a lesson from my associate while in High school (CCD was taught to the Jrs. by the associate and to Srs. by the Pastor). As you might imagine, drinking came up in this type of intimate setting as we were in the rectory basement and as we were postconfirmation. The discussions were as much about life issues as they were about theology.

Anyway, he said to us there is no sin in drinking alcohol but in what we do when we have been drinking. And drinking alcohol isn’t an excuse if you do something wrong becuase you drank too much. In other words, never drink so much such that you open yourself up to sin via your lower inhibitions. In this situation, drinking even a few beers while in a bar without your wife and you might be tempted to dance w/ young girls can be a real bad thing. Drinking a more beers while playing Pinochle at your kitchen table w/ your brother, his wife and your wife is significantly less a problem.

Granted there is a point where the drinking gets to a level (quantity and frequency) wehre you do harm to your body and that should be avoided. But on occassion, just like gourging yourself at Thanksgiving, getting drunk might be sinful but its gravity isn’t such that you need to confess it as much as address it in your prayers and/or the Penitential Rite at Mass.

And in the face of the grave matter sins out there, I find it goofy that this is the type of sin our Baptist friends tie themselves up in knotts over. Seriously, they’ll kick people out of their congregation or consider them subject to damnation over drinking beer but they don’t see anything wrong in not welcoming people to their congregation becuase they are of a different color skin (granted they are more subtle in their unwelcomeness now but unwelcoming just the same).


#8

It has already been said, but if Jesus turned water into wine, how can anyone say drinking in moderation is a sin? He wasn’t expecting the people at the party to just look at it. :rolleyes:


#9

[quote=Eden]It has already been said, but if Jesus turned water into wine, how can anyone say drinking in moderation is a sin? He wasn’t expecting the people at the party to just look at it. :rolleyes:
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smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_4_13.gif


#10

[quote=Mickey]smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_4_13.gif
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Cheers, Mickey!

He had a particularly grand heart attack (kidding) when he notice that I was drinking Weihenstephaner which is a German beer. On the bottle, it notes that it is the oldest brewery in the world, and one founded by a bunch of monks. (I love monks…crazy fun guys).

http://www.franziskaner.com/3_products/images/moench_ani.gif


#11

Maybe off topic a bit, but I sure get tired of all the church sponsored events that are nothing more than glorified “keggers”. What’s that verse about not being a stumbling block to your brother? What’s wrong with having a fish fry or a parish picnic without the beer if it might be a factor in someones sin? I guess I’m just out of touch.


#12

[quote=Sanctus]Drinking (in moderation) is, of course, no sin. Alcohol has always been used for Communion wine (note wine-not grape juice…the first to pasturize grape juice was welches, i believe…if you don’t even a big vat of grapes will, eventually ferment.)

On another note, wonderful beer choice. I am very partial to Paulaner, Weihenstephaner, and Erdinger!
[/quote]

I recently was in Germany and i went to this litte Pub/eatery, by chance was that Weihenstephaner a darker malt beer?


#13

[quote=WHCSC]Maybe off topic a bit, but I sure get tired of all the church sponsored events that are nothing more than glorified “keggers”. What’s that verse about not being a stumbling block to your brother? What’s wrong with having a fish fry or a parish picnic without the beer if it might be a factor in someones sin? I guess I’m just out of touch.
[/quote]

AMEN!!! Thank you so Much i totally Agree:thumbsup:
your are absolutely right, not out of touch

Tempus Fugit;)


#14

[quote=Sean.McKenzie]I recently was in Germany and i went to this litte Pub/eatery, by chance was that Weihenstephaner a darker malt beer?
[/quote]

Yes it is. Technically it is a Hefeweissbier. Here is a link to the site for it. It has lots of pics.

brauerei-weihenstephan.de/index.php?page=home_2_1&


#15

[quote=WHCSC]Maybe off topic a bit, but I sure get tired of all the church sponsored events that are nothing more than glorified “keggers”. What’s that verse about not being a stumbling block to your brother? What’s wrong with having a fish fry or a parish picnic without the beer if it might be a factor in someones sin? I guess I’m just out of touch.
[/quote]

Alcoholic drinks are a normal and traditional social beverage. There is nothing technically wrong with having an alcohol-free social function, but there is no obligation to do so.


#16

Of course there is no obligation to not serve beer at these events, but wouldn’t the possible harm in doing so outweigh the good? If you assume that someone will overindulge, why even have it available?


#17

[quote=WHCSC]Of course there is no obligation to not serve beer at these events, but wouldn’t the possible harm in doing so outweigh the good? If you assume that someone will overindulge, why even have it available?
[/quote]

Unless one adheres to the thought that alcohol consumption is inherently sinful or intrincally evil, it is a matter of prudence if the partiicular situation is appropriate for alcohol being served. And if kids are going to be in attendence, greater prudence on quantities consumed is necessary.

Parents Night Out sponsored by the Knights where there is a DJ and dancing- OK

Free Throw Contest for the kids sponsored by the Knights- Not OK.

Inter-Parish (parish against parish in area) Softball Tourney sponsored by the Knights- OK

Annual Turkey Supper in Parish Hall- not ok

Annual Pot luck Dinner/fundraiser with auctions (silent and live) for the school w/ no kids attending- Definitely OK so more money gets raised!

I think that if we make all our decisions about what might happen, we will become excessively scrupulous to the effect the original purpose gets lost. If you want to have a community building event and beer is a common beverage available in that locale/culture, I think it is ok to serve it.

On a side bar, if a person comes to a church function and gets drunk, don’t you think the parish is now on notice that there is probably a problem in that house? Now the issue is to decide what is the best corrective/interventive action.


#18

Most of your points are valid, but I just don’t see the benefits of serving beer at church sponsored events. Even if there were benefits, they surely couldn’t outweight the possible bad that could happen. If taking the beer out of any of these events makes them less of an event, then doesn’t that tell us something?


#19

[quote=Eden]Cheers, Mickey!

http://www.franziskaner.com/3_products/images/moench_ani.gif
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smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_9_23.gif


#20

[quote=sadie2723]Thanks! I love Weihenstephaner and Pauaner, but you should try Franziskaner if you have not done so. One of the best ever. Thanks for your comments!

Brad
[/quote]

http://uk.gizmodo.com/baby,crying,tantrum-thumb.jpg

uk.gizmodo.com/baby,crying,tantrum-thumb.jpg

I can’t have beer because of Gout. But, I see this as a Romans 14 issue. Jesus made Wine. Jesus drank Wine at Passover. People in the church got drunk on Wine ( I Cor 11 ). And, beer is in the Bible.

1 Samuel 1:15
"Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD.


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