Before the Church, before the disciples, before Moses, before Jacob/Israel and before Abrahamites, what were the worshipers of God?


#1

Hi! :)

Adam, Seth, Methuselah, Noah, Shem... the herd driven by all the Patriarchs before Abraham was appealed by God to circumcise. They were what?

They weren't full christians since God hadn't passed to this world. They weren't Jews because they didn't know about the Mossaic Law, they weren't children of Israel and they weren't bound by the Abrahamic convenant. All this is obvious since they lived much before those events... but my compilation is useful to ask:

What (Quid) were they? They weren't the Church, nor the People of Torah, nor Israelites (nor Ishmaelites) nor Abrahamites... so they were what? (It sounds coarse to ask "what" but you know, I want to know about a "substance").

Such as Jews (who are Abrahamites, Israelites and achievers of the Mossaic law) have still a paper at the Christian order, whatever the herd driven by the pre-Abrahamaic patriarchs was has still a paper in the Christian Church? (v gr when it is asserted that the Church recognises the seeking of all men of the truth)

These are two questions. I assume that both Jews and Christians (and maybe Muslims) are able to answer the first one.

:confused:


#2

The Angels, All of God's Creation worshiped ONLY him.


#3

[quote="Archedreamer, post:1, topic:285031"]
Hi! :)

Adam, Seth, Methuselah, Noah, Shem... the herd driven by all the Patriarchs before Abraham was appealed by God to circumcise. They were what?

They weren't full christians since God hadn't passed to this world. They weren't Jews because they didn't know about the Mossaic Law, they weren't children of Israel and they weren't bound by the Abrahamic convenant. All this is obvious since they lived much before those events... but my compilation is useful to ask:

What (Quid) were they? They weren't the Church, nor the People of Torah, nor Israelites (nor Ishmaelites) nor Abrahamites... so they were what? (It sounds coarse to ask "what" but you know, I want to know about a "substance").

Such as Jews (who are Abrahamites, Israelites and achievers of the Mossaic law) have still a paper at the Christian order, whatever the herd driven by the pre-Abrahamaic patriarchs was has still a paper in the Christian Church? (v gr when it is asserted that the Church recognises the seeking of all men of the truth)

These are two questions. I assume that both Jews and Christians (and maybe Muslims) are able to answer the first one.

:confused:

[/quote]

Arch,

They were children of Adam...the same question that Paul addresses in the letter to the Romans...those that claimed ancestory to Abraham and circumcision..."for don't you know that by one man sin entered the world and by one man we were made rigtheous.."

So here is the question for you. What purpose do you ask this question.:confused:


#4

[quote="CopticChristian, post:3, topic:285031"]
They were children of Adam... ...] by one man we were made rigtheous.."

So here is the question for you. What purpose do you ask this question.:confused:

[/quote]

I didn't want to input a pelagian/judaizer/or another humanist heretic comment. The way you talk me scares me :eek:. I remarke the circumcising act of Abraham to be sympathetic also to the jewish understanding of the topic.

My purpose was to ask: What was the institution that worshiped our God - God - before Christians and before Jews? - we - Jews and Christians - haven't been always there- And that institution has still a paper?

Not all Children of Adam worshiped God. I assume those who worshiped him had a shape, they had a name, they were a matter... They were certainly sinners and away from the Glory of God but anyways they had religious constructions, that construction had a name? Upon-Abrahamic worhipers are Jews and Upon-Christ worshipers are Christians, they (pre Abrahamic people who worshiped God) was what?

It is funny to be called Arch (I am called as a greek word :p)

I don't want to hurt your specially self-effacing piety making an humanist input :(


#5

Hinduism is the oldest religion that is still practiced today. I seem to remember studying about early civilization worshiping the sun but I don't remember where I came across that.


#6

Would this be the people at the time of Noah?


#7

Noah, Seth, Shem, Adam... all the Patriarchs before Abraham and their children and their household. Those who worshiped God when there was not the Church and there was not Israel. Those people what was? That remainder had any name?

I am just asking: What was the People of God when there was not Jews nor Christians? They worshiped God, not the Sun nor the Pagan gods, but they were members of some Sacred frame such as the Church or Israel?


#8

The bible should have a reference to guide us. I would not be surprised if the growing chain that starts with a couple (Adam and Eve), to a family (Noah), up to a tribe (Israel) was referred to as "The People of God."

I will read a little and try to find a bible reference for the group of people you refer to. I hope to get back soon.


#9

I found the reference “the sons of God” in contrast to “the daughters of men” in the following section of the Catholic Encylcopedia.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Noe_%28Noah%29

It is in the first paragraph.


#10

[quote="Samuel63, post:8, topic:285031"]
I will read a little and try to find a bible reference for the group of people you refer to. I hope to get back soon.

[/quote]

I just can be grateful to you (because solus ex gratia such a love towards a strange as me can come from) What a religion catholicism is!
Maybe there was no name. :confused:


#11

[quote="Samuel63, post:9, topic:285031"]
I found the reference "the sons of God" in contrast to "the daughters of men" in the following section of the Catholic Encylcopedia.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Noe_%28Noah%29

It is in the first paragraph.

[/quote]

Great!

To know about their existence will help me to care my ex - myself absolutization of (jewish and chrstian) Israel at my theology of history. So there are brothers elder than Jews.


#12

[quote="Archedreamer, post:7, topic:285031"]
Noah, Seth, Shem, Adam... all the Patriarchs before Abraham and their children and their household. Those who worshiped God when there was not the Church and there was not Israel. Those people what was? That remainder had any name?

I am just asking: What was the People of God when there was not Jews nor Christians? They worshiped God, not the Sun nor the Pagan gods, but they were members of some Sacred frame such as the Church or Israel?

[/quote]

The first monotheistic religion was Zoroastrianism I think. Is that what you are asking?


#13

[quote="Archedreamer, post:4, topic:285031"]
I didn't want to input a pelagian/judaizer/or another humanist heretic comment. The way you talk me scares me :eek:. I remarke the circumcising act of Abraham to be sympathetic also to the jewish understanding of the topic.

My purpose was to ask: What was the institution that worshiped our God - God - before Christians and before Jews? - we - Jews and Christians - haven't been always there- And that institution has still a paper?

Not all Children of Adam worshiped God. I assume those who worshiped him had a shape, they had a name, they were a matter... They were certainly sinners and away from the Glory of God but anyways they had religious constructions, that construction had a name? Upon-Abrahamic worhipers are Jews and Upon-Christ worshipers are Christians, they (pre Abrahamic people who worshiped God) was what?

It is funny to be called Arch (I am called as a greek word :p)

I don't want to hurt your specially self-effacing piety making an humanist input :(

[/quote]

Arch,

Then again you need to read Paul, letter to the Ephesians...the Church is the mystery hidden for all ages"....it was always there and yet ill defined. Paul also says in the letter to the Romans God is impartial and is God of all.....those that recognized and worshiped the one God did so and those that did not did not...

The history of the people of Israel is a family, Patriarch, and if you want to stretch it there was some sort of Priesthood...Melchezidek....There are Jewish writings that say that Melchizidek was Shem. We just do not know much about these times.

What is the point of your question?


#14

Hinduism was introduced by the Arya/Aryans, and is just another Babylonian Mystery Religion that contradicts all God has revealed about His nature and will. It only grudgingly recognizes Brahma and Sarasvati, a corrupted form of Abraham and Sarah.

Monotheism was THE religion, and this was corrupted after the Flood into ancestor worship as people traced their lineage to the last long-lived generation that was corrupted into the "Eight Immortals" of China and the Ogdoad of Egypt and the human-like "gods" of Mt. Olympus.

I suggest Shem built the Great Pyramid as a reliquary for Adam's bones which Egyptian heiroglyphs say were on Noah's Ark. Shem was the shepherd-king, Philition, "Lover of Righteousness" who drove the labor force into rebellion, as they preferred the cannibal cult thought to have been propagated by his cursed brother, C/Ham.

The so-called Patriarchal Revolution saw lodge house groups of heterodox men overthrowing the monotheist matriarchs who stored and distributed land and food; and throwing down her landmarks, literal representative figures of moms that were later corrupted into little idols. These were the land title-figurines that Rebeccah hid under the camel saddle. She wanted her mother's lands back that were snitched by her dad that were to go to her and her sister.

The Patriarchal Revolution, misnamed as true patriarchs like Noah were orthodox, collapsed the Woman & Seed system as an obvious assault driven by the Genesis 3:15 divine curse of Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed. The dads were killed, the women were made temple prostitutes having sex with strangers, and their children were killed.

Death was slated for Sargon the Great as the child of an EN, "woman of grace" or queen, an orthodox monotheist persecuted by the Satanists/rebels. She floated the newborn Sargon to safety in the irrigation canal. He was retrieved by the scholarly master engineer of the irrigation system, raised to manhood, and he conquered the profane nations to create the first empire. Sargon's daughter, an EN, EN-Heduanna, as part of the Woman & Seed system, would have chosen the successor ruler as her husband, so the bad guy priest Lugalan tried to rape her. Lugalan was from Ur of the Chaldees, the center of bad guy-ism that God later demanded Sarah & Abraham escape.

Remnant monotheists were persecuted, including Shem, posited to be Melchizedek. That's why nobody knew his identity. Melchizedek, "King of Righteousness" is the link to Abraham and Sarah's blessed lineage of monotheism, the Chosen People. Catholics are adopted, ingrafted Jews as "salvation is from the Jews" and Christ our Messiah opened the way for salvation in fulfilling the prophesied New and Eternal Covenant wrought in His Body and Blood. The unbroken lineage of EN-ship is fulfilled in the Woman & Seed conquering Satan and his minions.

The worst words Satan ever heard were voiced by the Archangel Gabriel, "Rejoice, Full of Grace," the fulfillment of divine EN-ship, the victorious Woman & Seed. This extends to all women and children as the Virgin Mary is pronounced blessed among women, i.e., she is the perfect fulfillment of all that women are called to perfectly fulfill with her! This is in contrast to Samuel's mother, Hannah, being called "blessed above women." The Full of Grace exalts the milieu of women and children to do battle with and conquer the Father of Lies and Murder and his comrades. The good guys don't have a name per se but a Biblical designation, remnant, the moral minority that escaped the satanic rebellion instigated in the Garden of Eden and who will survive the Great Apostasy in the future. May the Lord keep us faithful and true and tender-hearted in the midst of trials.


#15

[1 Cor 2:7,8] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden
wisdom, ... **
*[Eph 5:32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and
the church. *

**[Col 1:26,27] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and
from ...

A mysterion is a religious principle. It is not a secret per se, but with the monotheist remnant, it had to be a closely-held religious principle as with the early Church. There were no "secret doctrines" like Madame Blavatsky or the Lodges; and no secret societies, which are outlawed by the Church, and that includes the Irish Republican Army, btw. There was no vow to uphold secret doctrines that were only later defined as with Freemasons. This was a full on persecution, hunting down and killing those who adhered to orthodoxy.

It is illustrated in the myth of Isis, Osiris and Horus. Osiris was an historic ruler claiming to be divine, and was given the "god test" by an orthodox monotheist. He was put to death and failed to resurrect. His body parts were cut up and sent to cult centers to show them their ruler was no god. The queen claimed reincarnation and said the god lived on in their son, called Horus, and persecution of the monotheists was inflamed, a massive backfire. The monotheist was probably of the Shem school/family, the big-haired guys depicted as lions.

Shem and his brother Japheth seemed to have had to quash cannibalism, like that shown in the Egyptian heiroglyph of the guy munching on a limb. This cannibalism surfaced in Mexico as the cannibal cult overthrew the Mother & Son cult that had explicitly outlawed cannibalism. So this has been a long-standing hallmark of the satanistas, continued today in the civilized cannibalism of abortion, and the fetal tissue harvesting from Partial Birth Abortion. God deliver us. Now Catholics are cutting off their insurance instead of cutting off the cannibals. Gotta man up here.


#16

Good question, even if it is out of curiosity. I assume there was no organized religion before Abraham. The Bible is a kind of a historical book but about God’s action and His people, hence you would not find your answer in the Bible if it is what you want.

But the people of God have history. Moses, Abraham and all the way back to Adam. Just like the Church today – after the resurrection of Christ there was hardly any organized Church as we know it is today but obviously there were people who believed in Christ. So who were these people? Some scholars say they were ‘the ways’ and so forth. But it really does not matter because the plan of God is always there and probably today we see a full blown Church. Has that plan been realized? We don’t know or rather probably not until the second coming or until it will be done on earth as it in heaven.

So I think in reference to your question, we don’t know what religion and what people they were except that in the remnants were still God abiding and fearing people and along the ages as God continued to take action as he saw fit and result in how we develop today as a religion.


#17

The first people were Adam and Eve. They worshipped God. God talked to them directly and walked with them in the garden. There was no other religion as that would be foolish attempt by Adam or Eve to blaspheme God right in front of His face.

After a few generations, God removed His presence from the world. I believe Genesis chapter 3 or 4 you will find a verse that says something like “and after that time began people to call upon the name of the Lord”. When God’s presence left, man began to ‘pray’ to Him or call out to Him. Up to that time, God was walking in the midst of the people. (my interpretation).

Then more generations passed and men of old (and women) became reknown. They started referring to some of their ancestors as gods and began forgetting or turning away from the one true God.

Later, the flood came but that just reset things and people went back the same way. Ancestors and heros of old gradually became gods to the people once again. They also started carving gods out of wood or stone. This is how the Indian’s have all their various gods and how it dates all the way back to the flood times.

It wasn’t until several generations later that God called Abram and established covenants with a set group of people. You will notice also that Abram wasn’t the only believer in God. There were still others that he met along the way. And if you read your bible, you will find in the exodus of the Israelites out of Egypt, that they too ran into other believers in God who were of no relation to the Abram or the Israelites.

This is a brief explanation of how it may have happened. Of course most of this was not recorded but seems to be one possible explaination of how the other religions started.


#18

[quote="Archedreamer, post:10, topic:285031"]
I just can be grateful to you (because solus ex gratia such a love towards a strange as me can come from) What a religion catholicism is!
Maybe there was no name. :confused:

[/quote]

I think you are right in saying there was no name. The people just worshipped God. There was no other made up religions at the beginning. It was just God and His people. There was no need for organized religion when God lived in direct communion with man.

Man later created alternate religions out of his own mind and by deception of the evil one.


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