Behold Your Mother


#1

I find it interesting Jesus gave Mary to be our mother at the foot of the cross. At that moment when all eyes were fixed on Christ, Christ gave us his mother to be our mother to see him through her eyes (and intercession!).

It’s interesting it was done at this time rather than any other time. Does anybody else see this?


#2

I have always viewed it as an act of love and compassion. His Morher and the apostle who He loved were filled with sorrow over ourvLord's brutal death.That John(and all of us)would have Christ's mother as our mother too,was a great consolation.For Mary to be loved by John(all of us) was a great comfort to her as well.;)


#3

Definitely closes the "loop"

Woman there is your son (JESUS on the Cross has paralleled his own entry into this world as HIS FATHER had made-it-so by a simple statement through the HOLY SPIRIT).

Some short time later, in the presence of the woman who requested his first miracle (water into wine) HIS HEART is pierced, and water and blood (that HE called the wine from the previous evenings feast) flow from him separated.

Think of the power (raw blood-pressure) it would have taken for Mary to remain (concious) at the foot of the cross that day. Think of the raw power it would have taken for Her to carry anything to the grave not seventy-two hours later.


#4

Mary is the opposite of Eve. Whereas Eve disobeyed God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge, Mary was obedient to God, and so she stands beneath the Tree of Life as the Mother of all Christians. No better moment than that.


#5

[quote="Augustine3, post:1, topic:323137"]
I find it interesting Jesus gave Mary to be our mother at the foot of the cross. At that moment when all eyes were fixed on Christ, Christ gave us his mother to be our mother to see him through her eyes (and intercession!).

It’s interesting it was done at this time rather than any other time. Does anybody else see this?

[/quote]

Jesus had the right of the firstborn son. Jesus knew he was dying and was giving up his birthright.

A firstborn son had a right to recieve a double portion of the inheritance but with it came responsiblity to lead the family, take care of the children and elderly, defend the rights of the family, etc. The birthright could be sold, bartered or simply given away. Esau sold his birghright, giving up his inheritance and with it his responsiblity to care for the family.

With the words "Bohold your Mother" and "Mother, behold your son", Jesus, being an only son, gave his birthright to the disciple. The "Disciple whom Jesus Loved" is symbolic of all disciples of Christ and so yes, Mary is our Mother too.

Knowing that he was dying, the fact that Jesus gave up his birthright is not all that surprising. What is surprising to me is that it was the messiah's living act before breathing his last.

-Tim-


#6

That’s interesting what you’ve brought up regarding Jesus’ birth right. On a theological level, perhaps Jesus had given his birth right to St John (and all humanity personified in John) the inheritance of the kingdom of Heaven?

I see a flaw in this reasoning because Jesus receives the inheritance of the kingdom of heaven anyway. I wonder what kind of inheritance had Jesus passed on to John if it wasn’t heaven?


#7

[quote="Augustine3, post:1, topic:323137"]
I find it interesting Jesus gave Mary to be our mother at the foot of the cross. At that moment when all eyes were fixed on Christ, Christ gave us his mother to be our mother to see him through her eyes (and intercession!).

It’s interesting it was done at this time rather than any other time. Does anybody else see this?

[/quote]

Great observation Augustine,

Both in the beginning of Christ's ministry and on His Crucifixion-He brings His Mother to the forefront and (as you have said) invites us to not only see through her perspective but to also be like her.

...who is my mother and my brother and my sister?.....all those who listen to my words and keep them-they are my brother and my sister and my mother] Here He doesn't reject Mary but instead invites everyone to be like her if you want to follow Him.


#8

Someone recently sent this out, and I am wondering how to deal with it:

The Holy Spirit saw to it that she is NEVER mentioned in ANY of the instruction of the New Testament written by Paul, Peter, John, James and Jude. Zip! When God had Paul and Peter and the rest lay out all the doctrine and all the necessities of Church practice for ages to come, He deliberately (all that God does is deliberate) excluded anything about Mary!

Other than in the gospels, she is mentioned only one time, and that is in Acts chapter one, in a list of people who were in the upper room with the disciples: “ These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.”—Acts 1:14 So she in included in a list of followers and, by the way, she was with her other offspring—Jesus’ brothers!

In the one place where it might have looked like someone was attempting to worship Mary, Jesus quickly shut them down: “ While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”—Luke 11:27-29


#9

Can someone help me here?


#10

[quote="Augustine3, post:6, topic:323137"]
That’s interesting what you’ve brought up regarding Jesus’ birth right. On a theological level, perhaps Jesus had given his birth right to St John (and all humanity personified in John) the inheritance of the kingdom of Heaven?

I see a flaw in this reasoning because Jesus receives the inheritance of the kingdom of heaven anyway. I wonder what kind of inheritance had Jesus passed on to John if it wasn’t heaven?

[/quote]

We all recieve an inheritance. The firstborn recieves a double portion.

Giving up his birthright had a very significant practical aspect. John was to care for Mary.

-Tim-


#11

You have to be patient. The west coast has barely even woken up yet. Please give more than 25 minutes for people to reply.

-Tim-


#12

[quote="Bodyandblood999, post:8, topic:323137"]
Someone recently sent this out, and I am wondering how to deal with it:

The Holy Spirit saw to it that she is NEVER mentioned in ANY of the instruction of the New Testament written by Paul, Peter, John, James and Jude. Zip! When God had Paul and Peter and the rest lay out all the doctrine and all the necessities of Church practice for ages to come, He deliberately (all that God does is deliberate) excluded anything about Mary!

Other than in the gospels, she is mentioned only one time, and that is in Acts chapter one, in a list of people who were in the upper room with the disciples: “ These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.”—Acts 1:14 So she in included in a list of followers and, by the way, she was with her other offspring—Jesus’ brothers!

In the one place where it might have looked like someone was attempting to worship Mary, Jesus quickly shut them down: “ While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”—Luke 11:27-29

[/quote]

Mary is not "Deliberately excluded." Mary is all over the Bible.

[LIST]
*]"The seed of the woman" is mentioned in Genesis 3.
*]The strong women of the Bible like Ruth, Judith and Esther all forshadow Mary.
*]The Arc of the Covenant is a forshadowing of Mary. Anyone who physically touched it was instantly struck dead. This shows how God protected Mary's purity. Mary was the Ark of God's new covenant, Jesus Christ.
*]All 29 queens, all mothers of the king, mentioned in the books of First and Second Chronicals all point to Mary the Queen-Mother of the King. The Queen-Mother of the King is explicit in Revelation 12. The role of the Queen-Mother as intercessor before the king on behalf of the people was well known in biblical times.
*]Jesus gives his birthright to John at the foot of the cross, telling the "Disciple whom Jesus loved" which is symbolic for you and I, that Mary is his mother.
*]Out of all the Bible, Mary alone is the only one who gets to command God. Jesus does not want to start his public ministry but Mary says, "Do whatever he tells you" and so gets the singular privilege of telling God incarnate that he will start his mission and ministry. She is the only one given that privilege, of telling God what to do.
[/LIST]
Mary is not excluded from the Bible. Far from it. Mary is the Arc of the New Covenant and Queen of Heaven and Earth. It is that simple. Anyone who reads the Bible and has studied Jewish culture even a little and reads the Bible knows the importance of these things.

-Tim-


#13

Gotcha. Thanks.


#14

[quote="Bodyandblood999, post:13, topic:323137"]
Gotcha. Thanks.

[/quote]

It's probably best to start a new thread when asking another question apart from the original question. I know they are related, but it might be a good idea to start a new thread. You might get more traction.

...and welcome. :) It is good to make your aquaintance.

-Tim-


#15

Thanks, Tim. Maybe there is another existing thread that this request would be more appropriate in?


#16

Yes.

The argument is illogical.

argumentum ex silentio: Arguing that because there is no evidence of something means it is not true. (i.e. because it’s not in the bible, it’s not true).
confirmation bias: Selecting only evidence that is in favor of the persons view and then arguing based only on that evidence while ignoring or rejecting all other evidence to the contrary (i.e. other historical, authentic writing are rejected because they are not in the bible).

The bible doesn’t contain everything that was taught, and it is not the authority. The bible is a teaching aid that was put together by the one True Church. The Church is the authority (as the Bible indicates). There is Oral Tradition and Sacred Tradition.

The Sacred Traditions were established by Jesus, and these are the Sacraments. The instructions on which the Sacraments were to be administered were both handed down in writing and orally, but most of it wasn’t written down until much later when their was a need. There were a lot of people for a very long time that did not know how to read, so having a book containing all the teachings of the Church to which people could reference whenever they had a question would not have been very practical. The Bible we have today wasn’t even officially put together until many years after the Church started.

Oral Tradition started with Jesus who did not write a book or instructions at all. Instead he gave instructions to the Apostles directly, who then did the same, but sometimes they wrote letters giving instructions when they could not be present to teach or correct people, and they needed to address something important. This is why you’ll see at the end of their letters that they would tell them more when they visit.

An example of evidence of oral tradition from historical documentation:

Concerning Mary’s Assumption, we have this from St. John of Demascus:

“St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” - St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96)

This is not in the Bible, but it is evidence that the Apostles did in fact hand things down via Oral Tradition, and they didn’t feel the need to write everything down, because it was not necessary for someone to have every single thing written down in order to believe if they in fact had faith in Jesus Christ.


#17

[quote="Bodyandblood999, post:9, topic:323137"]
Can someone help me here?

[/quote]

I will try.

In my heart I believe that we as CHRISTIANS (Yes Catholics are Christian) belong to a family of GOD. I believe that we share with the SAINTS, and the KINGDOM includes these SAINTS that are alive. Not according to me, but according to the promises of Christ. According the witness of John. Giving us glimpses of what the HEAVENLY MASS is. If we are going to be faithful to Christ, won't the words of his prayer be fulfilled? When CHRIST says, "Thy KINGDOM COME, THEY WILL BE DONE......ON EARTH.....AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?"

Which church imitates ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?

Which one beholds our MOTHER as CHRIST SAID TO DO from the cross? If he did not mean for us to BEHOLD OUR MOTHER and those words were NOT ETERNAL, are we to really believe that everything else HE said was for an eternal purpose with the exception of that? Is that the rock I am to accept? Even though it affirms that we are the offspring of the WOMAN WHO GAVE BIRTH? I know many say that refers only to Israel. Well, Christ did not say from the cross with BEHOLD ISRAEL as our MOTHER. Did HE?

Biblican references like Revelation chapter 12. Actually, the final chapter of Revelation Ch 11, shows her actual true title.

Revelation Ch 11:19

19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within** his temple was seen the ark of his covenant**. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

^^^^^^^^^^

That is the final paragraph in Revelation Ch 11. We need to remember or understand that the Revelation, like the rest of the bible, was not separated out into chapter and verse until the medieval times. Meaning. Revelation was once ONE writing. Watch what it says at the beginning of the Ch 12 Revelation. Remember, John is seeing the ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT. There are words that would certainly get the attention of the Jews of the day. The actual ARK OF THE COVENANT had been stolen.

Revelation 12:1

12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

CONTINUED.........


#18

[quote="Bodyandblood999, post:9, topic:323137"]
Can someone help me here?

[/quote]

Continued........

Now, how is that a fulfillment of the old testament? Well, what was inside the Ark of Covenant? The Manna from heaven, the Staff of Aaron, and the Stone Tablets. Each of those were the SYMBOLS of the Christ.

So, when THE WOMAN appeared (remember John is referring the ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT), she was with CHILD. The Actual MANNA FROM HEAVEN. The ACTUAL HIGH PRIEST (represented by the staff of the High Priest Aaron, and THE LAW made FLESH. So, Mary.....THE WOMAN is the ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT.

Later in Revelation 12 it refers how the devil pursued the woman that sent out a torrent of water after her that she may be swept away, BUT THE EARTH HELPED THE WOMAN and swallowed the flood set against her.

In Revelation 12:17 it says......

*17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. *

You see that there? Where it says THE REST OF HER OFF SPRING? Those who bear witness to Christ and keep HIS commandments.

Ok, lets couple that with this verse.

25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman,this is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Behold is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

28 after this, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.”

You see how those words are eternal? Again, I have been asked by protestant to show them in the bible. Then when they are shown this, I was told that the Revelation verse refers to Israel, and that saying from Christ in no way means all of us.

I find that fascinating. One, I guess they believe EVERYTHING ELSE Christ said from the cross was for an eternal purpose and documented by the gospel with the exception of that. You notice that after HE had given HIS mother (He did not say BEHOLD MY MOTHER, HE said, BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER) that everything was now finished.

Then combined that with what Revelation says in regards to the REST OF HER OFFSRPING.

There was even a deeper reason why John was the only one the 12 that was at the foot of the cross. It was because he was the only one during the last supper to take the EUCHARIST that was consecrated for the FIRST TIME worthily. He leaned on Jesus's chest and asked who was to betray. The rest of them said to themselves surely not I.

Paul writes in Corinthians Ch11......

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27** So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.** 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

Remember, Peter later asks Jesus about the disciple that reclined at the table. That was more crucial than many think. It means that John was led to the cross in grace to the cross. He trusted and walked by faith, and he bore witness first hand of the crucifixion of Christ.

Therefore, he was BEARING WITNESS and keeping his COMMANDMENTS. That is why those words are eternal and not some insidious interpretation where everything else is eternal except for those words.

A lot of stuff, I hope it helps.

BTW, remember how Revelation is a lot of images of the heavenly MASS. We see all sorts of images of Saints and ANGELS giving prayers around the alter in the form of incense. We see the alter of God and the blood of the lamb in the form of bread and wine. We see the woman that was crowned with 12 stars. We see the elders gathered in white robes.

Remember the prayer. ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Which church imitates ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN as John was witnessing?


#19

[quote="Augustine3, post:1, topic:323137"]
I find it interesting Jesus gave Mary to be our mother at the foot of the cross. At that moment when all eyes were fixed on Christ, Christ gave us his mother to be our mother to see him through her eyes (and intercession!).

It’s interesting it was done at this time rather than any other time. Does anybody else see this?

[/quote]

It has always amazed me that He said very few things while dying and that was one of the things He said, "Behold your Mother."
Take her into your home, love her, honor her, listen to her, pray with her, be like her...those are just some of the things that means to me.

As for you BodyandBlood999, she is mentioned so many more times than that, read this, it may help you, pay particular attention to Chapter 8 as that deals with :
THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, MOTHER OF GOD
IN THE MYSTERY OF CHRIST AND THE CHURCH vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

As for the Bible verse you quoted, Jesus was saying, more blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. She did!


#20

Christ is the head of our Holy Catholic Church.We are the mystical body of Christ.Of course Our dear Blessed Mother is our mother too!;)


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