Beirut revisited?

This week the Australian Embassy in Djakarta was bombed by a group called Jemaah Islamia, who have as their inspiration Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida crew.

A truck with 200 kilos of Potassium Chlorate, with a C4 trigger, was driven by a suicide bomber and while they didn’t gain entry into the compound they made a mess of the front gates, and the lives of the innocents and non combatants on the street.

Because of bomb proofing measures made to the building none of the Australia Diplomatic Corps staff were injured - though a piece of high velocity fence pailing missed our ambassabor by about a meter.

At least nine civillian (ie Indonesian citizens) either on guard duty out front or just walking by were killed.

Again, fundamentalist Islamist terrorists waging their sick brand of war but suceeding only in killing their own people.

Over to the opinions of the forum…

are you posting a poll on whether or not we believe defense of one’s religion encompasses bombing buildings? are you under the delusion that these terrorist actions are religiously motivated? this is politics, war, intimidation, power, and manipulation of armies of ignorant people and religious fanaticism is a tool and weapon, like propaganda, tanks, bombs etc., but even if these terrorists succeed in a place like Sudan or Indonesia in establish Islamic states, and frame their laws in religious terms, it will still be about power, intimidation, manipulation and evil. Know your enemy.

[quote=puzzleannie]are you posting a poll on whether or not we believe defense of one’s religion encompasses bombing buildings? are you under the delusion that these terrorist actions are religiously motivated? this is politics, war, intimidation, power, and manipulation of armies of ignorant people and religious fanaticism is a tool and weapon, like propaganda, tanks, bombs etc., but even if these terrorists succeed in a place like Sudan or Indonesia in establish Islamic states, and frame their laws in religious terms, it will still be about power, intimidation, manipulation and evil. Know your enemy.
[/quote]

Well, I do believe that I am annoyed. “Am I under the delusion”? Really! If, in defending the United States, and ipso facto the religions contained therin, means bombing the Taliban in Afghanistan and destroying their buildings, then yes, you are right, defence of one’s religion does indeed encompass that.

Can you not see that, as you say, these terrorist actions are religiously motivated? It’s just that I’m trying to say that an incorrectly applied religious motivation does not invalidate the faith of all those ostensibly of the same faith but who do not support that action.

[quote=puzzleannie] Know your enemy.
[/quote]

Right. Absolutely. Sun Tzu, Art of War. Tell me, when was the last time you went up to an Imam and said “Sir, I don’t like what I’m hearing about your faith. Explain it to me”?

When was the last time you attended a mosque and had a Moslem attend your church?

When was the last time you stopped reading the absolute rubbish the mass media churns out about how all Moslems are terrorists and actually sat down to dinner with one?

When was the last time you got pulled out into a rip on a surf beach and it was your Moslem friend that swam out to get you?

When was the last time you saw, with your own eyes rather than on a pixellated screen the damage murderous fundamentalism can do?

And when was the last time you realised that in the same way that the IRA, or croatian catholic extremists, in no way represent your faith, that my Moslem friend cries when al-Qaida does the same to him?

I have done all these things. I am the only Catholic I know that has done so. Why is that so? Why are we so prepared to condemn without knowledge?

Your turn…

Oh, by the way, I’m also pretty peeved that, in my original title I’ve remembered the 288 American servicemen and women that died in Beirut. I’m remembering the victims of terrorism, wherever they may be and from whatever country.

I’m honouring their memory. Instead of homouring the memory of those who died, you choose to call me delusional. Not very nice.

Actually I do believe these attacks are religiously motivated. Under Islam there is no difference between the state and religion, in Islamic states their whole life is controled by religion. Many of them are taught from an early age in their schools and at home to hate us because of our support for Israel. Do I think all Muslims are bad? No! Do I think their religion is cruel, oppressive and false? Yes. I do not get all my info from the media. Yes, I know a few(3) Muslims and 2 are very nice and 1 is bordeering on evil. None of them are very religious. My son-in-law is Lebanise and he is very anti-Islamic because of what they have done to his homeland.

[quote=Lance]Actually I do believe these attacks are religiously motivated. Under Islam there is no difference between the state and religion, in Islamic states their whole life is controled by religion. Many of them are taught from an early age in their schools and at home to hate us because of our support for Israel. Do I think all Muslims are bad? No! Do I think their religion is cruel, oppressive and false? Yes. I do not get all my info from the media. Yes, I know a few(3) Muslims and 2 are very nice and 1 is bordeering on evil. None of them are very religious. My son-in-law is Lebanise and he is very anti-Islamic because of what they have done to his homeland.
[/quote]

Really, why else would someone voluntarily blow themselves up if it wasn’t religiously motivated?

[quote=Lance]Actually I do believe these attacks are religiously motivated. Under Islam there is no difference between the state and religion, in Islamic states their whole life is controled by religion. Many of them are taught from an early age in their schools and at home to hate us because of our support for Israel. Do I think all Muslims are bad? No! Do I think their religion is cruel, oppressive and false? Yes. I do not get all my info from the media. Yes, I know a few(3) Muslims and 2 are very nice and 1 is bordeering on evil. None of them are very religious. My son-in-law is Lebanise and he is very anti-Islamic because of what they have done to his homeland.
[/quote]

Islam is their way of life and therefore encompasses even their politics, which is why countries with predominantly Islamic majorities, are often under Saudi Arabian or Iranian-style Islamic theocratic governments, or military regimes with very powerful islamic opposition movements.

Islamic car-bombers are always religiously motivated, since they believe that dying in battle against the enemy would lead them straight to heaven (paradise) and this is precisely why they are willing to do what they do.

Gerry :slight_smile:

[quote=RobedWithLight]Islamic car-bombers are always religiously motivated, since they believe that dying in battle against the enemy would lead them straight to heaven (paradise) and this is precisely why they are willing to do what they do.

Gerry :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Unfortunately you’re right. It’s a fundamentalist misinterpretation of what the concept of “jihad”, or holy war, actually means. It is actually very similar to the Christian concept of turning the other cheek.

Simply put, it is this: It is OK to wage war in defence of oneself, or one’s faith. If you die whilst doing this, then you are considered martyred and you will ascend automatically to paradise.

Any Imam will tell you that. Where it gets corrupted is that some meglomaniac corrupts “defence” into justifiable offence, ie suicide attacks car bombings etc.

John Kerry’s campaign has warned Australians that the Howard
Government’s support for the US in Iraq has made them a bigger target
for international terrorists.

Diana Kerry, younger sister of the Democrat presidential candidate,
told The Weekend Australian that the Bali bombing and the recent attack
on the Australian embassy in Jakarta clearly showed the danger to
Australians had increased.

“Australia has kept faith with the US and we are endangering the
Australians now by this wanton disregard for international law and
multilateral channels,” she said, referring to the invasion of Iraq.

Asked if she believed the terrorist threat to Australians was now
greater because of the support for Republican George W. Bush, Ms Kerry
said: “The most recent attack was on the Australian embassy in
Jakarta–I would have to say that.”

Ms Kerry, who taught school in Indonesia for 15 years until 2000, is
heading a campaign called Americans Overseas for Kerry which aims to
secure the votes of Americans abroad–including the more than 100,000
living in Australia.

Well, first of all, let’s give Diana Kerry a history lesson. The Bali
bombing occurred in October 2002, five months before the liberation of
Iraq began. Back then, Diana’s brother supported the liberation of
Iraq; this was before he opposed it before supporting it and then later
opposing it again, etc.

In any case, here we have Diana Kerry, campaigning on her brother’s
behalf, telling America’s staunchest ally that the way to be safe from
terrorism is to betray America. Does John Kerry agree?

[quote=Lance] Diana Kerry, younger sister of the Democrat presidential candidate, told The Weekend Australian that the Bali bombing and the recent attack on the Australian embassy in Jakarta clearly showed the danger to Australians had increased.
[/quote]

I had not heard about this! Perhaps it’s been lost in our own election campaign. Would you happen to know which Weekend Australian the interview was from?

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