Belief in Catholic Communion and mortal sin connection?


#1

Thank you in advance to those of you who are very knowledgeable in these matters of Catholic doctrine. My husband has been raised in various denomination churches outside of the Catholic Church. He has agreed to go with me after we married in the Catholic Church and baptized our son in the Catholic Church. This recent 19th Sunday Homily was provided by the deacon. He began emphasizing the Bread of Life discourse. My husband disagrees whole heartily that the communion is the real flesh of Jesus Christ. Therefore, the homily struck a chord with my husband when the deacon said the it is a mortal sin to not believe the communion is the flesh of Jesus Christ upon receiving Eucharist during mass. He went further on to say that you would not be saved. These last two sentences are what my husband heard . We are seeking some feedback from you all before I approach the deacon to clarify where did this information come from with respects to doctrine in the Church.


#2

1 Corinthians 11:27-29

So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner (In a state of mortal sin) will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.


#3

When the priest holds up the Eucharist, they say “the Body of Christ” and one is supposed to respond with “Amen” before receiving it – this isn’t just some nice sounding words of devotion. There is very important formality behind this. The recipient doesn’t just politely say “thank you.” With the “Amen” – the recipient is supposed to be affirming the belief that it is truly the Body or Blood of Christ.


#4

Maximillian75 gave the on point verses about partaking without discerning Jesus’ Body leading to judgment. Jesus Himself notes we need to eat His body and blood to be saved:

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.


#5

Littlehavana,

Is your husband receiving communion? If he is not Catholic, then he is not supposed to be receiving it anyway. People can marry a Catholic in the Church, raise their kids in the Church and even attend mass, but that does not make them Catholic. They would need to actually formally join the Church, usually through the parish RCIA program. It’s usually through that program where Church doctrine like the Eucharist is discussed in detail and participants can discern and learn about what the Church teaches prior to actually joining the Church.


#6

I perceived the Homily as the comments have replied. However, the question is whether you will not receive eternal life if you don’t believe the host is the flesh and the wine is the blood of Christ? The second reply states scripture but how is that a correlation with mortal sin. The first reply only makes sense if you are in objective mortal sin upon receipt of communion.
My husband does not receive communion and simply goes with son to receive a blessing.


#7

If someone doesn’t believe in the True Presence, then as a Catholic they are in heresy and that does constitute as grave matter and could be a mortal sin if they fully know this and have been taught it and reject it but receive communion anyway. Anybody in a state of mortal sin that does not repent does not receive eternal life when they die.

We, as humans, don’t objectively know who is actually in a state of mortal sin – only God knows this. But I think the deacon is right in pointing out the gravity of the situation. I think it would be best to talk to him and have him clarify. But yes, it is a very serious and grave matter as far as Catholics are concerned.

That said, my generation was instructed very poorly as Catholics, and I can’t help but wonder if a lot of Catholics have been misinformed and lead astray by their own church leaders about this belief so it does come as a shock when there is finally someone, like your deacon, who actually speaks very clearly and plainly about it and tells it like it is.


#8

Nothing is a mortal sin that is not WILLFUL. We cannot force ourselves to believe something we’re not ready to believe. Moreover, most people simply know OF the debates over the Eucharist and who won. They often explain the doctrine of transubstantiation wrongly. Honestly, this happens in a lot of theology. There are all these high very brainy concepts with specifically defined words. The arguments are over very tiny things that require refined language.

Without the refined language, the controversy can’t be adequately explained. You can’t understand transubstantiation or consubstantiation without understanding substance theory. We are not taught substance theory in our schools, and moreover we often are teaching these highly intellectual words to children. It’s like teaching trigonometry to an eight year old.

The best way to explain transubstantiation to someone not schooled in substance theory is simply state that the Eucharist IS the body and blood of Christ even though all the attributes of bread and wine remain. It is no longer bread and no longer wine, but if we put it under a magnifying glass, it’ll continue to have all the attributes of bread and wine.

We have trouble grasping onto this because we tend to think something is a sum of its parts rather than a thing in itself which bears properties.

You have to believe in substance in a way that denies that we are a sum of our attributes. Once you get there, you can get to believing that when you receive the Eucharist, you are not receiving Christ spiritually while you receive the bread and wine physically. You believe that you are receiving Christ physically, that you are touching him and looking at him. You have something to stare at that isn’t a mere icon/photo meant merely to draw your memory to the person. You are having a real physical encounter with Christ.

Then, its just a matter of believing that God would want you to have a physical encounter with Him and that believing in the Eucharist is no different than believing in the incarnation of Christ. Afterall, God is not man, but the Word of God became man. This also gets us into the Christological heresies of early Christianity. Point is, its a greater leap to believe God became man than to believe that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ.

Don’t overthink it. It’s Jesus. Why wouldn’t you want a physical encounter with Jesus?

And if you don’t believe it yet, than you shouldn’t receive communion yet as it would mentally be like worshiping a statue. Until you’re there, you shouldn’t receive, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say “Okay, you’re in a state of mortal sin so God’s going to condemn you to hell. Yell at yourself to believe.” You shouldn’t want to commit idoltry and as such your loyalty to not committing the sin would make you reluctant to receive it.


#9

I’m also inclined to suspect that the deacon, though his words may come across as harsh, may be directing this at lukewarm Catholics that should know better but just don’t care. There are Catholics that are at church for cultural and social reasons and know all the teachings but actually think it’s all just a bunch of baloney. I think this is different than someone that really genuinely did not know or fully understand because they were taught poorly and not clearly.

Remember, mortal sin is grave matter, full knowledge, deliberate consent. Again talking to the deacon would be a very good idea!


#10

Receiving while not believing leads to judgment:

1 Cor. 11:29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

This is why the Church only permits certain other non-Catholics who share our faith in the Eucharist to partake under certain circumstances, while those who don’t, shouldn’t come up (it is for their own good!).

As far as belief, if we obstinately choose not to believe the words of Jesus, that is a sin against faith and one cannot be saved if we persist in that attitude. How can we tell Jesus we don’t believe Him and be saved? Or, even, how can we give little care to finding out what his truth is and be saved?

But, that doesn’t mean everyone who is wrong is therefore guilty of sin. One can be wrong in good faith. If one desires to believe all God has revealed and puts forth a reasonable, good faith effort to do so, there is no sin if you happen to get it wrong. Your faith covers any errors you inadvertently make.

Let this be for your husband an opportunity to consider his faith, if necessary strengthen his resolve to believe all God has revealed, and review his beliefs to confirm whether or not they align with the will of the Lord. If he still gets it wrong, don’t despair of his salvation and keep praying for him


#11

I’m not sure whether it is a not to believe that the Eucharist truly is the Body of and Blood of Christ, especially if this particular person does not come from a tradition where this is taught and believed. It’s not his fault. (I’m no theologian so don’t take my word for it)

That being said, there is a link between receiving the Eucharist and everlasting life.

ZP


#12

It is a hard teaching, as Christ acknowledges in John’s Gospel:

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”


#13

Excellent replies. I have scheduled appointment with the deacon. Defending our faith helps us come to understand the truth that Jesus offered us. I pray that we continue to help each other because some of us need different levels of explanation.

I will continue to seek out the doctrine of the mortal sin with regard if any to our accepting doctrine concerning Eucharist which is the real question that needs to be answered here. In my opinion when you focus on the good revolving Eucharist its more enlightening. Catholic answers has a wonderful review of these liturgical Sundays on this topic but no mention of doom.

It is also important to investigate the true origin of the host . I am aware of case of the priest who did have doubts and actually saw the host bleed…upon independent examination a cardiologist surgeon found actual living cells in the host after transub. Which provides realistic evidence.


#14

THIS Forum space limits do not permit a full response so I’m going ask YOU to please do some home work
What Catholic Faith

The Eucharist Is:
FROM God the Father
OF God the Son
BY God the HSFive

5 different authors of the NT testify to it {4 of them with their Life}

Pls LOOK these up in your bible { each is to be understood as being literal}
Mt 26: 26-28
Mk. 14: 22-24
Lk. 22: 19-20
Jn. 6: 47-59
Paul 1st Cor. 11: 23-30

In Paul’s account it is impossible for one to be self condemned for eating ordinary bread and drinking ordinary wine carelessly {it HAD to REALLY be Jesus}

Then GOOGLE “Eucharistic Miracles” or “therealpresence.com

ALL of the Apostles {and thousands MORE} actually gave their LIVES in brutal, grotesque ways’ as did countless other early Catholics because of their belief in the Real Presence; which AT FIRST was known as “The Breaking of the Bread”

Acts.2: 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers

And our Catechism #1345 speaks of the Early Mass

http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=1345&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

Wish I had more space

Pray very much
Patrick


#15

This direction from Patrick Miron is exactly what I needed. I’m off to work on all this in combination with prayer.


#16

Thank you:blush:

One can never pray to much,
Patrick


#17

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