Best Way to Respond to Abuse Scandal Hits


#1

Some people will hit you , or your faith rather, right away in what they sense to be its weakest point. For instance, with Muslims they’re “hit” right away on the terrorism issue. Let’s face it, there’s a problem there. No one, non-Muslim or Muslim for that matter, can reasonably deny that. For us, we’re oftentime hit with the abuse scandal(s) issue. I had a friend / acquaintance of mine recently say to me , " Well the Catholic Church is actually more of an ongoing criminal enterprise as opposed to a Church." He’s a totally non-religious guy, granted, says he’s against organized religion, but he did tell me before that he was baptized Lutheran I believe. He asked me how I could defend belonging to and donating weekly to a church that harbors offenders such as we have seen amongst some priests in the recent days. I really didn’t know what to say. The , " It’s just a minority of priests giving them all a bad name " , kind of argument really didn’t get me very far. “It reached nearly all the way to the top,” he retorted. “How come the Pope harbored Cardinal Law from Boston in Vatican City until he passed away??” So, I was getting knocked every which way and didn’t really have any valid or new defense. It’s true. Things look , well, quite wrong about so very much of this whole thing. And especially as new cases crop up , as they now are in Ireland I’ve heard.


#2

This is easy, if you firmly approach it.

This is what I say, now why would I stay Catholic if people in the Church sin? So show me in the Catechism where it is ok to abuse kids or help out your buddies in the Church, even if they are sinning.
Since this clearly is against Catholic belief, these people are sinners just like the other people who do horrible things and call themselves Christians. If a Christian sins does that invalidate the Bible?

It is a silly thing to leave the Church or denounce it because of sinners, which is like an apostle leaving the rest because of Judas. This would be equivalent to an apostle telling Jesus that He did a crummy job and leaving since someone betrayed Him.

If they continue insisting on this arguement then they are just behaving out of prejudice and rejecting truth because of their own personal bias.

God Bless
Scylla


#3

[quote=Suavemente]Some people will hit you , or your faith rather, right away in what they sense to be its weakest point. For instance, with Muslims they’re “hit” right away on the terrorism issue. Let’s face it, there’s a problem there. No one, non-Muslim or Muslim for that matter, can reasonably deny that. For us, we’re oftentime hit with the abuse scandal(s) issue. I had a friend / acquaintance of mine recently say to me , " Well the Catholic Church is actually more of an ongoing criminal enterprise as opposed to a Church." He’s a totally non-religious guy, granted, says he’s against organized religion, but he did tell me before that he was baptized Lutheran I believe. He asked me how I could defend belonging to and donating weekly to a church that harbors offenders such as we have seen amongst some priests in the recent days. I really didn’t know what to say. The , " It’s just a minority of priests giving them all a bad name " , kind of argument really didn’t get me very far. “It reached nearly all the way to the top,” he retorted. “How come the Pope harbored Cardinal Law from Boston in Vatican City until he passed away??” So, I was getting knocked every which way and didn’t really have any valid or new defense. It’s true. Things look , well, quite wrong about so very much of this whole thing. And especially as new cases crop up , as they now are in Ireland I’ve heard.
[/quote]

Over here there has been abuse in the Anglican Church too!


#4

Do Catholics believe cardinals are infallible or is that only the pope? Or is it the Church in general? Sorry I am just curious, because if it is the entire church, then I personally believe there isn’t a good answer you can give this guy. However if it is not the entire church and just the pope, then you can answer him with a reasonable response.


#5

[quote=Emad] then I personally believe there isn’t a good answer you can give this guy.
[/quote]

Why not?


#6

I find it’s best not to argue. I usually say something like,“Yes, it’s sad isn’t it? A few bad priests riuning it for the rest.” The best was to defuse an argument is to agree with the other guy. Hope that helps.


#7

This article will give you a good frame of reference, as the percentage of priests who have abused children is lower than that of the general population:

www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm


#8

This scandal is one of the things that comes straight to my mind when I see other Christians and especially Catholics bashing muslims.

If you believe that the whole religion must be held responsible for what a significant minority do, then there is absolutely no answer you have to this man.

If you, on the other hand, think that what individuals do should not make the rest of the membership guilty for their crimes, then you have your answer right there. Child molestation is a crime committed by individuals, for individual reasons, and it should be only those individuals who are held guilty for the crime.

But unfortunately, that kind of reasoning seems to be out of fashion these days. We do it to others all the time, so we should not be surprised that others do it to us.


#9

You might also like to refer the person to this site which has documented hundreds of like cases involving non-catholic clergy and children.

Ministers abusing children


#10

I am a Catholic and I don’t go to church, for a logically similar reason. I don’t believe in supporting dissident priests who make up their own version of the Catholic faith.

It would be one thing, if they tried to get it right, and failed. But, it’s another that they know they’re doing wrong.

The only priest implicated and confirmed to have committed abuse in our diocese was one with whom I was rather acquainted, for a time. I don’t know how I’d feel if there had been widespread abuse, with large payouts. I don’t think I’d like it.

All I can say is that I have tried complaining about things that are wrong, and I don’t have the sense that it’s having any effect.

Look around you. So many Catholics are staying away from Church now, and what effect is that having on the bishops? Do you see some big campaign of them saying “we want to listen to you” or anything like that?

did the Bishops accept their own responsibility for moving around abusing priests?

What’s hardly every mentioned is that the “move around” and “pay off the victim” strategy is one that the bishops had developed for instances where priests were sexually involved with women, resulting in unplanned pregnancies, etc. I don’t think that it’s the case that they didn’t know how deep-seated the tendencies of sexual abusers was, it was rather just as well that they had a superficial strategy for these other cases. And, you know, it worked for a long time, too. Nobody was any the wiser.

I just don’t think the Bishops are going to admit that they were supposed to know about all kinds of sin, but that they didn’t know how serious this kind of sin was, notwithstanding that it’s a type of sin so old,it’s in the Bible.

And, while the Catechism of the Catholic Church deals with many kinds of sin, it doesn’t go deeply into this kind of sin, or of other kinds of sin that the Church collectively has even admitted guilt in the past.

Perhaps there was also the attitude that this was all “sexual mischief” that the priests would grow out of . You know, boys will be boys.

But, here we have places like Boston, where the rate of Mass attendance is around 19%, and I don’t really sense a concern for the spiritual welfare of those Catholics who have been alienated. You know the old cliche, they’re not “alienated” they’re “fallen away” Catholics – you know, it’s their fault. they weren’t pushed or revolted out of the church, they “fell” away as anyone metaphorically “falls” into sin.


#11

We’re supposed to believe that there were “far worse” scandals in the Church, and the Church has survived.

The condescending “this is nothing” and “well, it’s over” attitudes makes me sick.


#12

BEYOND ANY DOUBT, THE CHURCH SHALL PREVAIL

If both clergy and faithful carry out their respective duties, with the unfailing help of the Blessed Virgin Mary, of Saint Joseph, Her most chaste spouse and Protector of the UniversalChurch, of all the angels and saints, we will be rewarded by seeing the Church win one more battle. The present crisis is but one more episode—even if one of the worst—in Her glorious history of struggles.

We are reminded of this by the Catholic intellectual Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, who wrote in his seminal work, Revolution and Counter-Revolution: “Amid the storms through which She passes today, the Church could proudly and tranquilly say: ‘I have seen other winds, I have beheld other storms.’11 The Church has fought in other lands, against adversaries from among other peoples, and She will undoubtedly continue to face problems and enemies quite different from those of today until the end of time.”12

. tfp.org/TFPForum/catholic_perspective/infaceofscandals.htm


#13

Your right Crumpy, I also sense a kinda wishy washy feeling about fallen away Catholics and Catholics about to fall away.

It took me a lot to come back to the Church and not coming to Church was just pretty much dismissed as “fallen away”

I had no problem going to church with my wife to Four Square Gospel, to a house church and to Calvary Chapel because of this attitude that it really doesn’t matter. It took study, prayer and a lot of stress on my marriage but by the Grace of God I came back home to the Catholic Church.

And I was a person who really didn’t fall away too far, what about those who just leave and never are reached out to. Some of these people will never come back if they are not asked and brought back. They will just drift and as the ho-hum attitude continues they will never get the clear direct teaching they need to come back to the Church.

I was at a meeting at my Church about 2 weeks ago and they mentioned someone who doesn’t come anymore, and I was pulling out my hair. I went to their house and visited this person. Yet the sister at the meeting was just kinda with a “it happens” attitude, aargh!

Well enough of my tirade,
May God bless you Crumpy and hopefully we see some firmer teaching and clearer more convicted attitudes by your local parish.
Scylla


#14

Eden wrote…
“This article will give you a good frame of reference, as the percentage of priests who have abused children is lower than that of the general population”

Hmmm… This is not true here in Ireland.
More importantly, surely, is that the Church is supposed to be teaching how to live in Jesus. We must be beyond reproach then. And must also admit fully where sin has been committed.

Which has not happened here in Ireland.

The attitude that is most moral is that that admits how appalling it is, rather than any form of defence.

There is still so much anger here. So much comfort needed.


#15

There’s not much to say really, ignore it and hope it goes away. Catholic’s obviously don’t O.K. that sort of behavior, nor does the Church, and there’s no defense of someone who behaves that way. It’s a shame and embarasment we all have to carry as Catholics. This will rock the Church for centuries to come, and it’s just a tragedy what these wolves in sheeps clothing did to the victims, the Chruch, and us as members.

I had/still have a hard time donating my money to the Church knowing it may be going to pay off victims of the terrible abuse, especially because it happened in my diocese.

Like I said nothing really to say, except it isn’t doctrine of the Church. And we’re all appalled by it.

It’s just a terrible terrible stain and embarassment. I can only hope God has mercy on those who have left the Church and become agnostic and unbelievers because of the actions of some clergy members.


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