Bible and Social Sciences


#1

Is God welcome in the secular social sciences?

Is God welcome in Catholic universities in social sciences?

In literature?

In our law schools?

THANKS!


#2

It will definitely vary with the environment. I would expect to see more discussion about God in a Catholic University or other religious institution. At the secular institution, not so much.
I went to a secular university and the subjects were not really centered around God, especially since there was a diversity of beliefs. I am not sure how useful it would have been since not everyone believes the same thing.


#3

Are you kidding? Man is God to the secular social studies. [BTW, they are not “sciences”.]

Is God welcome in Catholic universities in social sciences?

Georgetown University removed crosses from its classrooms.

In literature?

:rotfl: LMAO

In our law schools?

Ditto.


#4

It depends very much upon who is teaching the class, and what we mean by “welcome”.

“Can I walk into class, make a dogmatic statement, and expect everyone else to nod their heads in agreement?”
Not in most schools, no.

“Can I talk about religion as a significant element of human life and society?”
In most humanities subjects, yes.

“Can I express my particular belief position?”
Unless the teacher is stupid and if it is relevant to the topic of discussion, yes.

“Will others make disparaging comments about religion/religious believers?”
Probably, although they are less likely to if you have expressed your particular belief position.


#5

Consider the following cases:

“Transgenderism and Unemployment: What Really Matters”
By Bruce Robinson
August 10, 2014

"…Thus, the perfect trumps the good, and all of California’s children must be subjected to massive classroom, locker-room, and bathroom behavior modification. Late last year, this public-school pogrom suddenly became very personal for me when I received a phone call from my grandson. He and his twin sister, both high school juniors in the Windsor Unified School District (Sonoma County), had just been subjected to a series of classroom lectures by transgender spokesmen and ordered by their English teacher to write a paper defending the special rights of their LGBT schoolmates. ‘Grandpa,’ my grandson protested, ‘I don’t know what to do. I don’t believe in any of that stuff!’”

Note: What the student was ordered to do is to write and sign a loyalty oath. Loyalty oaths have been unconstitutional since the 1950s. I give the student, young as he is, a lot of credit for knowing truth from falsehood, though.


Lawsuit: Glowacki
June 20, 2013

ANN ARBOR, MI – The Thomas More Law Center today announces a victory in their lawsuit against teacher Johnson McDowell of Howell High School in Howell, Michigan.

The Court declared the teacher’s actions in punishing Daniel Glowacki for expressing his beliefs against homosexuality violated “Daniel’s First Amendment rights.” In its findings of fact, the Court described how the teacher initiated a discussion about homosexuality. The teacher wore a purple t-shirt and was promoting the homosexual agenda. In response, the Plaintiff, 16 year-old Daniel Glowacki stated that homosexuality was against his Catholic beliefs. The teacher, admittedly, became angry and threw Daniel out of class because he disagreed with Daniel’s beliefs. A second student expressed agreement with Daniel and was likewise expelled from the class.


“Ask God what your grade is.”

Regular Torch readers will likely remember [student] Lopez’s shocking story: In a Speech 101 class, Lopez delivered remarks referencing his religious views as part of a class assignment, including expressing his view of Biblical morality and his conception of the proper definition of marriage. Following the speech, Lopez was called a “făshist băstärd” by his professor. When Lopez asked for a grade, the professor recommended that Lopez “Ask God what your grade is.”


#6

The first teacher evidently failed to account for the natural variety of students, while the second and third were so unprofessional as to warrant disciplinary action, and I say that as someone who is enthusiastically pro-gay rights: perhaps things are different in the US, but I am used to institutions which have very firm rules against acting in the manner described.


#7

This is what happens as a result of changing the objective of education from the pursuit of truth to political advocacy.

… and I say that as someone who is enthusiastically pro-gay rights:

What are gay rights? “If you believe in equal rights, then what do ‘women’s rights,’ ‘gay rights,’ etc., mean? Either they are redundant or they are violations of the principle of equal rights for all.” – Dr. Thomas Sowell

…perhaps things are different in the US, but I am used to institutions which have very firm rules against acting in the manner described.

It depends on which country. From what I’ve read, things are much worse in England. See the gay horse case.


#8

It is interesting that Dr Sowell is a political advocate who advocates particular political objectives.

Shouldn’t different political objectives be open to discussion regardless which side of the divide you are on?


#9

Pointing out an inconsistency in reasoning is now political advocacy? That’s rich, although I could understand how that conclusion was reached if one believes that reality must conform to ideology.

Shouldn’t different political objectives be open to discussion regardless which side of the divide you are on?

If that is true, then why were the students punished in the examples I gave in post #5?

I have long suspected that freedom of expression means freedom to express liberal/Leftist viewpoints and no others.


“Liberals claim they want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.” – William F. Buckley, Jr.


#10

To ask the same kind of question: in writing a dissertation for a PhD, could one make use of a divine orchestrator(s) or supreme being(s)?

THANKS!


#11

A long time ago [in the '60s], a fellow student told me that essays should be written supporting the liberal point of view if the professor was liberal, or if you were in doubt about his persuasion [99.44% are liberal]. If he was a known conservative, it didn’t matter. I passed that advice on to my two kids, and they later told me it worked. One didn’t believe a word he wrote and got an A.


#12

That’s a wonderful idealised image of education, but the reality of the last two and a half millennia of institutionalised education is that it has been dominated by the concerns of governments, wealthy patrons, school boards, teachers’ pet topics, and students’ need to find employment. Anti-women, anti-communist, anti-intellectual, anti-rationalist, anti-religious, and anti-foreign concerns have stood so firmly in the way of the pursuit of truth that the pursuit has frequently been left to extra-curricular study.

What are gay rights? “If you believe in equal rights, then what do ‘women’s rights,’ ‘gay rights,’ etc., mean? Either they are redundant or they are violations of the principle of equal rights for all.” – Dr. Thomas Sowell

Sure, gay rights and women’s rights are subsets of equal rights, and, just as soon as gay people actually have the same rights as straight people (e.g., the right to marry) and women have the same rights as men (e.g., the right to expect not to be sexually harassed) and people who are not of northern European ancestry have the same rights as people of northern European ancestry (e.g., the right not to be labelled “people of color”), they shall be subsumed into the general equality.

It depends on which country. From what I’ve read, things are much worse in England. See the gay horse case.

Oh, you mean the one which the Crown prosecutor decided not to take any further? If your idea of a worse society is one in which the police can pick someone up for being drunk and obnoxious, and leave them in the cells for a night to cool down, that’s just fine with me.


#13

My impression of the US system is that it only uses internal examiners (i.e. ones from the same school), in which case you could ask the relevant people.

In a wider context, the basic rules are relevance and evidence: if the Supreme Being is a figure of practical consideration in the thesis and you can prove beyond reasonable doubt your assertions about said Being, then it should be okay. I cannot think of many contexts in which one could manage that for very much of the content, and have heard about some fields (Biology in particular), in which any such reference is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

Still, these sorts of questions are why supervisors exist.


#14

Maybe weeding out those areas might be part of the pursuit of truth. BTW, if finding employment should not be a dominating concern, how would you justify the immense amount that is “invested” into education?

Anti-women, anti-communist, anti-intellectual, anti-rationalist, anti-religious, and anti-foreign concerns have stood so firmly in the way of the pursuit of truth that the pursuit has frequently been left to extra-curricular study.

Got any examples of these?

Sure, gay rights and women’s rights are subsets of equal rights, and, just as soon as gay people actually have the same rights as straight people (e.g., the right to marry) and women have the same rights as men (e.g., the right to expect not to be sexually harassed) and people who are not of northern European ancestry have the same rights as people of northern European ancestry (e.g., the right not to be labelled “people of color”), they shall be subsumed into the general equality.

People don’t want equality; that’s why they work so hard to rise above. Why did all those professors get PhDs? If academia practiced what it preached about equality, they would donate all their incomes above median to the government for proper re-distribution. The law cannot treat everyone exactly the same; its very purpose is to discriminate between individuals for different treatment. You are advocating radical egalitarianism, but an eighty year old woman cannot be treated the same as an eighteen year old man. What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a Leftist demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes. Justice Benjamin Cardozo once said, "there is a tendency of a principle to expand itself beyond the limit of its logic.” That’s how we ended up with a worse society.

… If your idea of a worse society is one in which the police can pick someone up for being drunk and obnoxious, and leave them in the cells for a night to cool down, that’s just fine with me.

You obviously missed the author’s point. My idea of a worse society is one that places the trivial above the serious. Apparently, in England, making a “homophobic” comment [about a horse no less] is a more serious crime than inflicting great bodily harm on another human being.


#15

Mystophilus answered in post #6. I agree with his answer.

I have long suspected that freedom of expression means freedom to express liberal/Leftist viewpoints and no others.

That is your suspicion.


“Liberals claim they want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.” – William F. Buckley, Jr.

That I am a liberal is an unsupported conclusion on your part.


#16

He didn’t answer the question as to why they were punished.

That I am a liberal is an unsupported conclusion on your part.

I didn’t say you were a liberal, but if the shoe fits, wear it.


#17

Did you ask the question “why were they punished?”

You used a quote about liberals in a direct rebuttal to my post which indicates you have concluded that I am a liberal and not in accord with your view of conservatism. I could be wrong but if I am wrong please let me know why you used it the way you did?

BTW, and off topic, I wish that William Buckley were alive today, whether you liked his politics or not, in my view his conservative politics were nuanced as opposed to many of today’s conservatives.


#18

See post #5.

You used a quote about liberals in a direct rebuttal to my post which indicates you have concluded that I am a liberal and not in accord with your view of conservatism.

I don’t think what I posted is as bad for the human race as what those professors did to their students.

Being made to write and sign a loyalty oath is not punishment? Being thrown out of class is not punishment? Being held up to ridicule and called a “phăshist băstärd” by your professor is not punishment? The students were treated as though the teachers?] and administrators in these schools?] believed that all knowledge in the subjects under discussion was complete. Was it?


#19

Sorry I took you too literally. Mystophilus told you what he thought of the teachers and even that two of them should be disciplined for their actions. We could speculate why they, the teachers, were not punished but you need to ask their superiors why they were not.


#20

Undoubtedly they were following the lead of their administrations. That is what subordinates do. This sort of thing is not without precedent:

Far too little attention has been paid to addressing the fundamental role that ideological indoctrination in classrooms and lecture halls has played in delivering the atrocities of Notsie-ism to the world. The German university was the ideological originator of Notsie-ism, turning romantic racial myths and superstitions about Germany and the Jews into a systematic “scientific” body of knowledge that gave rise to Notsie racial policy and justified the horrors of the Notsie atrocities. Professors and academics with multiple Ph.D.s eagerly collaborated with the Notsie leadership and selected who was to be sterilized and who lived or died for the glory of the Volk, advocated which races were to be exterminated and which nations were to be invaded and conquered for lebensraum. …

If one day the situation were reversed and the fate of the vanquished lay in my hands, then I would let all the ordinary folk go and even some of the leaders, who might perhaps after all have had honorable intentions and not known what they were doing. But I would have all the intellectuals strung up, and the professors three feet higher than the rest; they would be left hanging from the lampposts for as long as was compatible with hygiene.
Victor Klemperer, I Will Bear Witness: A Diary of the Notsie Years 1933-1941

Looks like Klemperer might get his chance in the not-too-distant future. “Previous generations of social experimenters have caused unimaginable misery for millions of people. None of them have ever been held accountable.”


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.