Bible corruption/islamic point of view


#1

Hello to all…as we already know, the muslims accuse us of having a corrupted Bible. I’d like to read the muslims’ response as to where in the quran does it say the Bible is corrupt…and whether Allah did promise to keep his word or not. Am only interested in islamic point of view, so please do not copy/paste irrelevant posts about different Bible translation or canons. thx and God bless.


#2

Good point InJESUS! Yours and Georges are quite the same topic. Why dont you both combine? : )


#3

[quote=Cyber Knight]Good point InJESUS! Yours and Georges are quite the same topic. Why dont you both combine? : )
[/quote]

which one is his thread? i didn’t see it.


#4

5:15 O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;

There are many other verses that tell us this, search on the WhyIslam.org forum and this question has been answered many times.


#5

[quote=Emad]5:15 O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;

There are many other verses that tell us this, search on the WhyIslam.org forum and this question has been answered many times.
[/quote]

mohammad accused some jews of concealing the truth; that is, not revealing the truth of the meaning of their scriptures; so this does not prove corruption; we need some verses about textual corruption.


#6

[quote=Emad]5:15 O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;

There are many other verses that tell us this, search on the WhyIslam.org forum and this question has been answered many times.
[/quote]

Why should we abandon Jesus Christ Our Lord and Our God - through Whom we have forgiveness of our sins - and turn to Mohammed, who leaves us in them by encouraging us to ignore Jesus’ teaching ?

We have light already, in Jesus Himself, for He is the Light of the world. ##


#7

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## Why should we abandon Jesus Christ Our Lord and Our God - through Whom we have forgiveness of our sins - and turn to Mohammed, who leaves us in them by encouraging us to ignore Jesus’ teaching ?

We have light already, in Jesus Himself, for He is the Light of the world. ##
[/quote]

:amen: :blessyou:


#8

[quote=inJESUS]Hello to all…as we already know, the muslims accuse us of having a corrupted Bible. I’d like to read the muslims’ response as to where in the quran does it say the Bible is corrupt…and whether Allah did promise to keep his word or not. Am only interested in islamic point of view, so please do not copy/paste irrelevant posts about different Bible translation or canons. thx and God bless.
[/quote]

Peace.

187 Ali Imran
And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to make it known and clear to mankind and not to hide it;but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain! and vile was the bargain they made!

188
Think not that those who exult in what they have brought about and love to be praised for what they have not done think not that they can escape the penalty. For them is a penalty grievous
indeed.

199
And there are certainly among the people of the Book those who believe in Allah in the revelation to you and in the revelation to them bowing in humility to Allah: they will not sell the signs of Allah for a miserable gain! for them is a reward with their Lord and Allah is swift in account.

77
As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price they shall have no portion in the hereafter: nor will Allah (deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment nor will He cleanse them (of sin); they
shall have a grievous penalty. 412 413
78
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues; (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book but it is no part of the Book; and they say “That is from Allah” but it is not from Allah: it is they who tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it!

79
It is not (possible) that a man to whom is given the Book and Wisdom and the prophetic office should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah’s; on the contrary (he would say): “Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all for ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly.” 414

80
Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and Patrons. What! Would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (to Allah in Islam)? 415

171
O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Apostles.
Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in
the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 675 676

27 -57
Then in their wake We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy.But the monasticism which they invented for themselves We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as
they should have done. Yet We bestowed on those among them who believed their (due) reward but many of them are rebellious transgressors.

91
No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say:
“Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)”:
Say: “Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought? a light and guidance to man: but ye make it into (separate) sheets for show while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not neither ye nor your fathers.” Say: “Allah (sent it down)”: then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. 909 910 911

Want more?


#9

[quote=gurrato alaien]Peace.

Peace :slight_smile:

187 Ali Imran
And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to make it known and clear to mankind and not to hide it;but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain! and vile was the bargain they made!

it doesnt prove corruption.

188
Think not that those who exult in what they have brought about and love to be praised for what they have not done think not that they can escape the penalty. For them is a penalty grievous
indeed.

it doesnt prove it as well.

199
And there are certainly among the people of the Book those who believe in Allah in the revelation to you and in the revelation to them bowing in humility to Allah: they will not sell the signs of Allah for a miserable gain! for them is a reward with their Lord and Allah is swift in account.

it doesnt prove corruption as well.

77
As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price they shall have no portion in the hereafter: nor will Allah (deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment nor will He cleanse them (of sin); they
shall have a grievous penalty. 412 413

it doesnt prove it as well.

78
There is among them **a section **

who distort the Book with their tongues; (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book but it is no part of the Book; and they say “That is from Allah” but it is not from Allah: it is they who tell a lie against Allah and (well) they know it! look at the boldened part : a section and with their tongue so it does not prove corruption.

79
It is not (possible) that a man to whom is given the Book and Wisdom and the prophetic office should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah’s; on the contrary (he would say): “Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all for ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly.” 414

it does not prove corruption as well. On the contrary.

80
Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and Patrons. What! Would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (to Allah in Islam)? 415

it does not prove corruption as well.

171
O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Apostles.
Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in
the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. 675 676

it does not prove corruption as well.

27 -57
Then in their wake We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy.But the monasticism which they invented for themselves We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as
they should have done. Yet We bestowed on those among them who believed their (due) reward but many of them are rebellious transgressors.

it does not prove corruption as well.

91
No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say:
“Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)”:
Say: “Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought? a light and guidance to man: but ye make it into (separate) sheets for show while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not neither ye nor your fathers.” Say: “Allah (sent it down)”: then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. 909 910 911

it does not prove corruption as well.

Want more?

yes please…i want a proof from quran of a textual corruption, thx.
[/quote]


#10

No all that verses said that God’s words have been changed but in different phrases.

here one more:

002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:“This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

I will try to give you more tomorrow inshallah

Peace to you brother.


#11

[quote=gurrato alaien]No all that verses said that God’s words have been changed but in different phrases.

here one more:

002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:“This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

I will try to give you more tomorrow inshallah

Peace to you brother.
[/quote]

I just did a quick google and there are something like 50 odd English translations of the Koran that I could see online. When I have time I’ll do some comparison of all 50 versions and see what comes out of it. Should be interesting.


#12

[quote=gurrato alaien]No all that verses said that God’s words have been changed but in different phrases.

here one more:

002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:“This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

I will try to give you more tomorrow inshallah

Peace to you brother.
[/quote]

Does this mean Woe to Mohammed then, since he wrote the Quran with his hands?


#13

[quote=dwolstro]Does this mean Woe to Mohammed then, since he wrote the Quran with his hands?
[/quote]

Exactly!, but they’ll come and say that Mohammed was illiterate and so on and so on!


#14

[quote=gurrato alaien]No all that verses said that God’s words have been changed but in different phrases.

here one more:

002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:“This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

I will try to give you more tomorrow inshallah

Peace to you brother.
[/quote]

it does not prove textual corruption as well…read the verses just before this one…i need a verse saying that the Bible is textually corrupt please.


#15

[quote=Booklover]Exactly!, but they’ll come and say that Mohammed was illiterate and so on and so on!
[/quote]

i personally do not think he was illiterate…if you read the exact verse before the one Gurrato gave, you’ll see that the “ummiyyun” or “illeterate” does not mean illeterate but he referes as such to people who do not have a religious book…this adjective is always linked to a religious book and does not mean illeterate…ummiyyun in arabic means “from nations” as well…umma=nation.


#16

Example:
He it is Who hath sent among the **unlettered ones (ummiyyeena) ** a messenger of their own, to recite unto them His revelations and to make them grow, and to teach them the Scripture and wisdom, though heretofore they were indeed in error manifest, S. 62:2 Pickthall

Unlettered here cannot literally mean that muhammad was sent to people who couldn’t read or write, since there were hundreds of Arabs who were reading and writing both before and during muhammad’s time. In fact, Muslim traditions assert that muhammad had Arab scribes who would write down the Quran for him

If they argue with you, then say, “I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me.” You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not (ummiyyeena), “Would you submit?” If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people. S. 3:20 Khalifa

And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercy: Lest ye should say: “The Book was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study:” Or lest ye should say: “If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.” Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord, - and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah’s signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away. S. 6:155-157

the Quran explains in what sense Muhammad was unlettered:

And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood. But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge, and none deny Our revelations save wrong-doers. S. 28:48-49 Pickthall

And some hadiths confirm this fact that ummiyyun does not mean unlettered but refers to people who do not have scriptures and some argue it refers to gentils from word umma=nation.


#17

Salaam All;
Textual corruption is in the Bible itself.

Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
The Character of Sinaiticus and Vaticanus Texts
Comparisons between The Majority (KJV) and Minority (NIV) Texts

This is only a comparison between differents texts, it does not mean the majority text is correct and did not undergo heavy editing.

Joseph.


#18

[quote=Joseph_Alison]Salaam All;
Textual corruption is in the Bible itself.

Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses
The Character of Sinaiticus and Vaticanus Texts
Comparisons between The Majority (KJV) and Minority (NIV) Texts

This is only a comparison between differents texts, it does not mean the majority text is correct and did not undergo heavy editing.

Joseph.
[/quote]

Hello Joseph, in my first question, i said i am interested in the quran regarding this topic…these answers are covered in the link Daniel gave under the other thread regarding corruption as well…if you could please prove to me from quran about textual corruption…


#19

[quote=inJESUS]it does not prove textual corruption as well…read the verses just before this one…i need a verse saying that the Bible is textually corrupt please.
[/quote]

Peace to you brother here more verses please try to understand it slowly:

005.015
YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, -
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture,
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;

003.071
YUSUFALI: Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge?
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Why confound ye truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the truth?
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with the falsehood and hide the truth while you know?

004.046
YUSUFALI: Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: “We hear and we disobey”; and “Hear what is not Heard”; and “Ra’ina”; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said: “What hear and we obey”; and “Do hear”; and “Do look at us”; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe.
PICKTHAL: Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: “We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not” and “Listen to us!” distorting with their tongues and slandering religion. If they had said: “We hear and we obey: hear thou, and look at us” it had been better for them, and more upright. But Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.
SHAKIR: Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.

002.075
YUSUFALI: Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
PICKTHAL: Have ye any hope that they will be true to you when a party of them used to listen to the word of Allah, then used to change it, after they had understood it, knowingly?
SHAKIR: Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this).

Peace.


#20

Also brother I have one question for you why you believe in Trinity despite its not even mentioned in the bible in any version of any language. think brother please think may God guide you to the truth.

Peace.


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