Bible Critics; Who could write the Bible?


#1

First, let me explain. I am a devout Catholic and firmly believe that the Holy Bible is the work and word of GOD.

So I pose this question to those that either don’t believe in the Bible or use the Bible to supplement their “religion”.

Who would have the capability to write the Bible in the very early 17th century? We’re talking specifically the KJV or the LV/DR. There are 73 books of the Holy Bible (DR version) and they nearly all tie into one another. What individual or group of people could collaborate on such an undertaking?

I believe that even the greatest fiction and non-fiction writers known to history could not fathom trying to assemble a book near the complexity of the Bible.

What are your thoughts and how do you deny the authenticity of the Bible?


#2

I doubt if even the most brain dead atheist would try to maintain that the Bible was composed in the 17th century. The nearly brain dead ones might go for a major rewrite at the Council of Nicea. They would base that upon what I suppose is a conveniently naive idea of how a text is handed down over two thousand years of history - whereby every minor textual variation serves as evidence that somebody has doctored it.


#3

Hi Templar,

Are you implying that the Bbile was written in English?

Verbum


#4

Are you implying that anyone thinks the bible was written in the 17th century?? The old testament was written before the birth of Christ and the new testament shortly after his resurrection. The KJV was one of many translations.

I suppose some people may think that the words of the KJV were inspired directly by God, but it’s just a translation in the English language of that era. Some more recent translations are more accurate, however, the psalms in the KJV are beautiful.


#5

No.

What I am asking is that for those non-believers that think the bible is not the word of God, how could all of these different stories have been written independently of each other at different times and consistently cross-reference each other? My point of the 17th century was for the Bible doubters who would argue that the Bible could have been compiled by a group of people with a certain agenda. My question was how could a group of “conspirators”, in the 17th century accomplish such a task.

The entire point of my question was for the Bible doubters and to inquire what is their reason for doubting the Bible’s authenticity.


#6

Far be it from me to make the atheists’ case for them, but why not? Irrespective of whether or not the Bible is the word of God, people living in Palestine during the first century BC would doubtless have been very familiar with the traditions contained in the OT books, as well as in other books which haven’t come down to us, so why wouldn’t they include references to them in their own writings?

Aas I said previously, I have met atheists who try to maintain that the Bible has been doctored by the Church at different times, usually on the basis of arguments which won’t stand even cursory examination, but I have yet to meet atheists who try to argue that it was written from scratch by a group of theologically minded fraudsters.


#7

I complelely agree with the first post about the bible being to complex for evn todays fiction or even non-fiction righters.

If I had to explain how the bible is’nt a haox, that’s how I’d do it.


#8

Fist off all,EVERY THEME IN CHRISTIANITY,is borrowed from Babylonian,Sumerian,And Egyptian texts and tablets…"GARDEN OF EVE,FALL OF MAN, MOSES, NOAH AND THE ARK,HEAVEN HELL,3 DAY RESURRECTIONS…ECT,ect…2nd of all 4 gospels that painfully conflict is not the definition of meshing…3rd of all look at all the books that were actually written

30-60 Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Titus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter

100-200 Odes of Solomon
101-220 Book of Elchasai
105-115 Ignatius of Antioch
110-140 Polycarp to the Philippians
110-140 Papias
110-160 Oxyrhynchus 840 Gospel
110-160 Traditions of Matthias
111-112 Pliny the Younger
115 Suetonius
115 Tacitus
120-130 Quadratus of Athens
120-130 Apology of Aristides
120-140 Basilides
120-140 Naassene Fragment
120-160 Valentinus
120-180 Apocryphon of John
120-180 Gospel of Mary
120-180 Dialogue of the Savior
120-180 Gospel of the Savior
120-180 2nd Apocalypse of James
120-180 Trimorphic Protennoia
130-140 Marcion
130-150 Aristo of Pella
130-160 Epiphanes On Righteousness
130-160 Ophite Diagrams
130-160 2 Clement
130-170 Gospel of Judas
130-200 Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus
140-150 Epistula Apostolorum
140-160 Ptolemy
140-160 Isidore
140-170 Fronto
140-170 Infancy Gospel of James
140-170 Infancy Gospel of Thomas
140-180 Gospel of Truth
150-160 Martyrdom of Polycarp
150-160 Justin Martyr
150-180 Excerpts of Theodotus
150-180 Heracleon
150-200 Ascension of Isaiah
150-200 Acts of Peter
150-200 Acts of John
150-200 Acts of Paul
150-200 Acts of Andrew
150-225 Acts of Peter and the Twelve
150-225 Book of Thomas the Contender
150-250 Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra
150-300 Authoritative Teaching
150-300 Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
150-300 Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
150-300 Melchizedek
150-400 Acts of Pilate

150-400 Anti-Marcionite Prologues
160-170 Tatian’s Address to the Greeks
160-180 Claudius Apollinaris
160-180 Apelles
160-180 Julius Cassianus
160-250 Octavius of Minucius Felix
161-180 Acts of Carpus
165-175 Melito of Sardis
165-175 Hegesippus
165-175 Dionysius of Corinth
165-175 Lucian of Samosata
167 Marcus Aurelius
170-175 Diatessaron
170-200 Dura-Europos Gospel Harmony
170-200 Muratorian Canon
170-200 Treatise on the Resurrection
170-220 Letter of Peter to Philip
175-180 Athenagoras of Athens
175-185 Irenaeus of Lyons
175-185 Rhodon
175-185 Theophilus of Caesarea
175-190 Galen
178 Celsus
178 Letter from Vienna and Lyons
180 Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs
180-185 Theophilus of Antioch
180-185 Acts of Apollonius
180-220 Bardesanes
180-220 Kerygmata Petrou
180-230 Hippolytus of Rome
180-250 1st Apocalypse of James
180-250 Gospel of Philip
182-202 Clement of Alexandria
185-195 Maximus of Jerusalem
185-195 Polycrates of Ephesus
188-217 Talmud
189-199 Victor I
190-210 Pantaenus
193 Anonymous Anti-Montanist
193-216 Inscription of Abercius
197-220 Tertullian
200-210 Serapion of Antioch
200-210 Apollonius
200-220 Caius
200-220 Philostratus
200-225 Acts of Thomas
200-250 Didascalia
200-250 Books of Jeu
200-300 Pistis Sophia
200-300 Coptic Apocalypse of Peter
203 Acts of Perpetua and Felicitas
203-250 Origen

EARLY JEWISH WRITINGS

Testament of Abraham Pseudo-Eupolemus 4 Maccabees
Apocalypse of Adam Apocryphon of Ezekiel 5 Maccabees
Testament of Adam Ezekiel the Tragedian Syriac Menander
Life of Adam and Eve Greek Apocalypse of Ezra Testament of Moses
Ahiqar Questions of Ezra Book of Noah
Letter of Aristeas Revelation of Ezra Orphica
Aristeas the Exegete Vision of Ezra Philo the Epic Poet
Aristobulus Fragments of Pseudo-Greek Poets Pseudo-Philo
Artapanus Pseudo-Hecataeus Pseudo-Phocylides
2 Baruch Hellenistic Synagogal Prayers The Lives of the Prophets
3 Baruch Testament of Isaac History of the Rechabites
4 Baruch Martyrdom and Ascension of Isaiah Apocalypse of Sedrach
Cleodemus Malchus Ladder of Jacob Treatise of Shem
Apocalypse of Daniel Prayer of Jacob Sibylline Oracles
More Psalms of David Testament of Jacob Odes of Solomon
Demetrius the Chronographer Jannes and Jambres Psalms of Solomon
Eldad and Modad Testament of Job Testament of Solomon
Apocalypse of Elijah Joseph and Aseneth Thallus
1 Enoch History of Joseph Theodotus
2 Enoch Prayer of Joseph Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
3 Enoch Jubilees Apocalypse of Zephaniah


#9

dont believe me though, here are some translations of ancient tablets and texts well before any OLD TESTAMENT was written…INFACT you will find the word" Israel" and its actual origins,which were not God…

dqhall59.com/Archaeology_and_the_Bible/index.htm


#10

What are you smoking??


#11

I agree that there were many, many books that arent in the bible that could have been becuase the auther has book that made it in. I dont get why egyptian, or summarian texts would point anything ou thow. Those were the peoples and languages of the times, ofcorse its all going to be from those sorces!


#12

You be suprised how much Sumerian text was copied to the bible…
Do some research and see for your selves.


#13

This has got to be the weirdest thread I have ever read.

I have never met anyone who believes that the Bible was written in the 17 century. Even people who believe it has no historical value at all think that it is of ancient origin.

And where anyone gets the idea that something that complex can’t be written by fiction writers hasn’t read much.


#14

When we speak of the Bible, we actually mean a library of books written within a span of 1100 years. Those who wrote these books are either anonymous or identified. Hence, the statement “who could write the Bible” can refer only to these individuals, known or aanonymous. (For example: Isaiah, Jeremiah, Luke mark etc.; Others are anonymous: Chronicles, Kings etc.) In the 17th century, no books of the Bible were written. Copied yes or printed because at that time there was already the invention of Printing.


#15

Are you referring to all of the bible or just the book of Genesis? I know there are many parts of the early parts of Genesis that are similar to Sumerian texts, which I don’t find problematic; either the bible is literaly true in which case it would make seince that many cultures remember the same thing or the early part of Genesis uses mythic language to reveal the early experiances and turth of God’s relationship to man, in which case I could see the Biblical Author drawing from base stories and the Holy Spirit guiding him to making the nessisary changes to make it the Word of God.

I mean, ultimately we believe in the Bible not so much because we trust in our own assessment of its Truth or the assessment of others, but because God has used the Bible to touch our hearts, and has created first a people, Israel, then a Church, the Catholic Church, to teach and preach about His wonders and graces.


#16

The book of Genesis certainly has some similarities with sumerian texts (e.g. their creation story calle Enuma Elish.) However the difference is that creation in Genesis happens through God’s word and not through the struggle of the gods. That alone sets Genesis apart.


#17

It would take too long to explaine so do your own reasearch and see for yourself.
Browse a few dif sites and spend a little time on the subject, Maybe you will see what i’m saying.

:knight1:


#18

no doubt I will, I’m gong to seminary so I will study much, but I don’t think my research will be of the online variety, I will wait until I do old testament study in seminary and read peer reviewed articles, the thing is, online stuff can be a bit flimsy…

But my point remains that even if there are similarities it doesn’t necessarily prove anything, different arguments can be made from the same evidence, much of it depends on the ideology of the author or the reader of the research. Thats not just bible history either, thats all history, its all colored by ideology, not something that can be solidly proven like physics or chemistry.


#19

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.