Bible verse that increased my Faith, maybe of atheists/agnostics


#1

Hello,

I remembered that the Magnificat is a good prayer, and it contains a beautiful verse:

Mary said:

[48] Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Verse 48 of the 1st chapter of luke is a prophecy: This cannot be rationalized. 2,000 years later, the Blessed Virgin Mary is honored among Catholics, and all generations, as this verse says, will do so.
I see no way to rationalize this


#2

Well, yeah, it is prophetic that Luke knew a movement that was at that point less than thirty years old would last 2OOO, but…I mean…so was Lafayette saying that he sensed that in America, the fate of the whole world would be decided, or Napoleon having a firm conviction of his destiny, or any number of crazy young starry eyed dreamers who ultimately do make it, saying that You’re gonna see my name in lights! Im gonna be the biggest start this side of the Mississippi, and make you proud Aunty May!

Also, those who do not make it say the same thing often enough.

I think that the Magnificat as a prayer is an excellent testament to the faith of Mary, and I am definitely moved by the power and accuracy of your quoted verse…but I question its value in apologetics.


#3

Well, I’m neither an atheist nor an agnostic, as You may see, but I see that they will claim that we call Our Lady Blessed exactly because of this verse, not the other way round.

The prophecies of Our Lord on the destruction of Jerusalem and of the coming of Son of Man at the Sanhedrin (during the trial of St. Stephen) are harder to explain from a materialistic PoV.


#4

Well, except that the standard answer is to claim that the Gospels were written after the destruction of the temple.

I think if you want compelling prophecies, your best bet, and I do not think this strategy will convince anyone who is reluctant to believe it, is to cite Jeremiah and Isaiah predicting the fall of Babylon and the Jews return to Israel.

Jeremiah also made a number of very specific predictions about the future of the dynasty’s succession, with regard to Jehoiachin and Jehoiakim.

Ezekiel predicted the return to Israel.

And all the prophecies about the longevity of the Davidic line, that was kinda born out by just how danged long that blood line sat on the throne in Israel. I mean, they got exiled, but the monarchy was restored and King Zerubabel returned.

But I think this all far more powerful to a believer. Does not strike me as a good way to convince unbelievers.


#5

You guys have a point:

A whole new topic for a second:
What about the Saint who said, when St Alphonsus was very young, that he will die at a very old age and be a very holy man.

Back to the posts:
This verse, though says literally every generation of human beings, which is a pretty far claim for a ‘new belief’. Since 20 centuries later, this is still true, I can see this as a good thing.

False prophecies, I see, aren’t as great as this: they only prophecize up to a shorter amount of time, or that we can already see they aren’t true. But we are living in the presence of something happening, and the Bible also says that knowledge of the Lord will be very common. In this day, we can learn about God so easily, the Mass is almost everywhere, the internet tells you so much about Catholicism (CAF)

I do see that the Church has followed this verse, in obedience to Scriptures, but Luke who was writing it must have been pretty confident of this being true, at the time, when he wrote it.

Back to a prior point, Lafayette may have known in a world undergoing extreme nationalism that this country may be the spark that inspires other revolutions: Haitian, French; therefore, changing a major part of the world. This were the ‘Enlightenment Ideals’ roaming free.

Jesus, on the way of the Cross saying about the fall of Jerusalem, in the Gospel of Luke, is a good verse. This is because the Acts of the Apostles makes NO mention of the martyrdom of Peter and Paul, very significant apostles. This is a strong indication Acts was written prior to 67 AD. Since the Gospel of Luke predates Acts, as the very beginning of Acts explains to the recipient Theophilus, then one can reasonably conclude the Gospel of Luke was written before Acts, which was before 67 AD, which was before the fall of Jerusalem.


#6

Hi!
…what is really interesting is that people refuse to allow Scriptures to speak; that is they reject/ignore God’s own Word, in spite of their claim to be centered in Scriptures:

39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!” (St. Luke 1:39-45)

Mary’s response to Elizabeth’s greeting is Inspired by the Holy Spirit, Who, through baby John, fills Elizabeth with the knowledge and joy that Jesus, the Immanuel, though just a few hours from being conceived, is the God-with-us!

Maran atha!

Angel


#7

Hi!
…it’s value… you doubt God’s Word?

Maran atha!

Angel


#8

Hi!
…perhaps St. Luke was not so into himself as much as he was obedient to the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

…further, St. Mary’s Revelation is not that all people will call her Blessed but that all generations (Apocalypse 12:17); that is, all generations of Believers!

Maran atha!

Angel


#9

But I am a worm, not a man,

scorned by men, despised by the people.e

8All who see me mock me;

they curl their lips and jeer;

they shake their heads at me:f

9“He relied on the LORD—let him deliver him;

if he loves him, let him rescue him.”g

10For you drew me forth from the womb,

made me safe at my mother’s breasts.

11Upon you I was thrust from the womb;

since my mother bore me you are my God.h

12Do not stay far from me,

for trouble is near,

and there is no one to help.i
II

13Many bulls* surround me;

fierce bulls of Bashan* encircle me.

14They open their mouths against me,

lions that rend and roar.j

15Like water my life drains away;

all my bones are disjointed.

My heart has become like wax,

it melts away within me.

16As dry as a potsherd is my throat;

my tongue cleaves to my palate;

you lay me in the dust of death.*

17Dogs surround me;

a pack of evildoers closes in on me.

They have pierced my hands and my feet

18I can count all my bones.k

They stare at me and gloat;

19they divide my garments among them;

for my clothing they cast lots.l

20But you, LORD, do not stay far off;

my strength, come quickly to help me.

21Deliver my soul from the sword,

my life from the grip of the dog.

22Save me from the lion’s mouth,

my poor life from the horns of wild bulls.

I remember when I read Psalm 22 for the first time in my own Bible Study and it spoke volumes to me for it was written by King David and this did not happen to him, but happen so exactly to Jesus hanging on the cross… all I could say was WOW… but then I was already a believer. How many years did King David precede Jesus and how did he know they would gamble for his clothing??? they would pierce his hands and his feet?? they would number all his bones??


#10

Guys, there is that which is convincing to a believer, and that is fine, and that which is compelling to a nonbeliever and there is a difference.

Just do not use this stuff in vivo. The experiment will end badly.


#11

Hi!
…that’s what too many people (including the “Believers”) keep missing… Scriptures are not what “theologians/scholars” believe/say they are. Scriptures are the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit; hence, the prophet need not be aware of the actual Revelation that he is Pronouncing/Writing–though they may be made aware by the same Holy Spirit that Inspires them to Write/Prophesy.

Sadly, man’s thirst for self-indulgence too many times inflates his ego beyond rationale as he pits himself against God in search for “truth” and “authenticity.”

Maran atha!

Angel


#12

Hi, Clay!
…are you confused or am I misunderstanding you… do you mean to state that prophecy does not exist… that the Holy Spirit does not Inspire Biblical text?

Maran atha!

Angel


#13

I am saying that if you go to an atheist with that, and the question was how do you convince an atheist, you are going to convince no one.

I did recommend some specific prophecies as being more compelling and hard to explain away in my second post.

But anyway, I detect a language barrier here, jcrichton, so, our conversation might be unproductive.


#14

Hi, Clay!
…as they say, ‘my bad.’

When you made the comparisons and the subsequent statement it threw me… it seemed that you were equating Scriptural Prophecy with man’s (throwing out into the dark thousands of theories and hypos and when something seems to hit… alas, 100% proven!).

…so mea culpa!

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel


#15

Generations exist to disapprove generational error. In other words, the divine Chronology is a divine law.


#16

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.