Billy graham says about apostle's creed


#1

i happened to go by his website and I came across the question and answer:

Q:What is the Apostles’ Creed?

A: The Apostles’ Creed, though not written by the apostles, is the oldest creed of the Christian church and is the basis for others that followed. Its most used form is:

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; The Holy catholic Church, the Communion of Saints; The Forgiveness of sins; The Resurrection of the body, And the Life everlasting. Amen.

In its oldest form, the Apostles’ Creed goes back to at least 140 A.D. Many of the early church leaders summed up their beliefs as they had an opportunity to stand for their faith—see, for example, 1 Timothy 6:12. These statements developed into a more standard form to express one’s confession of faith at the time of baptism. It is not Scripture, but it is a simple list of the great doctrines of the faith.

The word “catholic” means “relating to the church universal” and was the word used in the original version of the Creed. It does not mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the church, the body of Christ, as a universal fellowship. The phrase, “He descended into hell,” was not part of the creed in its earliest form.

more at: billygraham.org/LFA_Article.asp?ArticleID=103

I’m taking it like they’re saying they don’t agree that the universal church is the CC??


#2

Not quite, he is saying that it does not refer to the RCC, a big difference from the CC, the CC includes every person, just that most people are not fully aware, or educated, etc. protestants are considered separated brethren, this means they are still part of the CC, just not in its entiretey. he probably means it is nt the CC, but that is because he doesnt kow any better… hope that helped a little…


#3

[quote=Paris Blues]The word “catholic” means “relating to the church universal” and was the word used in the original version of the Creed. It does not mean the Roman Catholic Church, but the church, the body of Christ, as a universal fellowship. The phrase, “He descended into hell,” was not part of the creed in its earliest form.

more at: billygraham.org/LFA_Article.asp?ArticleID=103

I’m taking it like they’re saying they don’t agree that the universal church is the CC??
[/quote]

Same old twist and turns they have done from the beginning. Catholic does mean Universal, but until the Reformation, there was only one Universal Catholic Church…the CC. But Catholic was indeed used early in Christianity, to define Christians from the wanna be’s.

However vague and indefinite the creed of individual Protestants may be, it always rests on a few standard rules, or principles, bearing on the Sources of faith, the means of justification, and the constitution of the Church. An acknowledged Protestant authority, Philip Schaff (in “The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge”, s.v. Reformation), sums up the principles of Protestantism in the following words:
The Protestant goes directly to the Word of God for instruction, and to the throne of grace in his devotions; whilst the pious Roman Catholic consults the teaching of his church, and prefers to offer his prayers through the medium of the Virgin Mary and the saints.

From this general principle of Evangelical freedom, and direct individual relationship of the believer to Christ, proceed the three fundamental doctrines of Protestantism — the absolute supremacy of (1) the Word, and of (2) the grace of Christ, and (3) the general priesthood of believers. . . .

Link

Catholic
The word “Catholic” means “universal”. As a title for the Church, it was first used by St. Ignatius of Antioch in 107 A.D. when he wrote, “Where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” The term soon acquired the two meanings that are now associated with “Catholic,” namely universal and orthodox.
Christ certainly intended His Church to be universal, when He told His disciples: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:18-19). We get some idea of how well the apostles obeyed Christ’s command from the fact that there were some one hundred Catholic dioceses established in Europe, Asia, and Africa by the beginning of the second century.
The Church’s universality had to be joined with her orthodoxy to ensure true catholicity. This would have been impossible except for her final quality of being truly apostolic.

Link


#4

Much as I generally like Mr. Graham (wishing that his son were more like him) he is wrong about the term Catholic and I think it’s pretty conspicuous that they decapitalize the word in their version when you look at the capitalization of the terms all around it. :wink:

I direct your attention to this qoute from St. Ignatius of Antioch who was bishop of Antioch and a close friend and disciple of St. John (the last of the apostles to die near the end of the first century). This was written between 107 and 110, and so predates 140 which the Creed in question dates from.

CHAP. VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.(2) even as where Christ is, there does all the heavenly host stand by, waiting upon Him as the Chief Captain of the Lord’s might, and the Governor of every intelligent nature. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize, or to offer, or to present sacrifice, or to celebrate a love-feast.(1) But that which seems good to him, is also well-pleasing to God, that everything ye do may be secure and valid. (Emphasis mine) Link to the whole letter

This proves that the early church used this name for itself even before the creed came into being.
Pax vobiscum,


#5

actually the missal produces it with a lowercase c.


#6

[quote=Lazerlike42]actually the missal produces it with a lowercase c.
[/quote]

which is of course correct. catholic/universal still means that to us. The capitol C is only used by those who must twist and turn the phrase to suit their denom’s agenda.


#7

How I read this is that Mr. Grahm is saying that the catholic church is the community of christ and not just the Roman Catholic church. This is how I have always understood the word.


#8

Catholic means ‘universal’ --the one universal church. Of course, when the Apostles Creed was written, there was only one church.


#9

[quote=Shlemele]How I read this is that Mr. Grahm is saying that the catholic church is the community of christ and not just the Roman Catholic church. This is how I have always understood the word.
[/quote]

Right but you are not Catholic (with a capital “C”). So your reading of “catholic” as merely meaning universal is a Protestant understanding. And speaking of capitalization, surely you normally capitalize the “c” in Christ, don’t you?


#10

[quote=La Chiara]Right but you are not Catholic (with a capital “C”). So your reading of “catholic” as merely meaning universal is a Protestant understanding. And speaking of capitalization, surely you normally capitalize the “c” in Christ, don’t you?
[/quote]

And as someone once quoted…"while ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ…so too is “Ignorance of history, ignorance of Christ.”


#11

The Catholic Church has always been the universal Church.

The term “Roman” or “Romish” Catholic first came into use by Protestant writers in the early 17th century who highly resented the Roman claim to any monopoly of the term Catholic.

I don’t mind the label RC, we RCs belong to the Catholic Church and accept the authority of the Bishop of Rome (well, most of us).


#12

[quote=Shlemele]How I read this is that Mr. Grahm is saying that the catholic church is the community of christ and not just the Roman Catholic church. This is how I have always understood the word.
[/quote]

It was the schismatic Anglicans (at the time they were just schismatics, not outright protestants) who still wanted to refer to themselves as “catholic” after they separated from Rome who started calling us Roman Catholics. There is only one Church, the Church with the successor of Peter as his head - the Catholic Church. :slight_smile: Oh, and the other Catholics in communion with Peter’s successor would take issue with the whole Catholic Church being the Roman Catholic Church and not just the Latin-Rite. :wink:


#13

[quote=Semper Fi]It was the schismatic Anglicans (at the time they were just schismatics, not outright protestants) who still wanted to refer to themselves as “catholic” after they separated from Rome…
[/quote]

If I’m not mistaken, the Orthodox still wanted to refer to themselves as C/c-atholic, too.:slight_smile:


#14

My understanding of the Apostle’s Creed is it was exspansion of the the original Baptismal pray.
It was Instituted to combat the Heresy of Gnostisism. Is stresses the Humanity of Christ( the proper catholic belief ).
In the fist Century the enemy of the catholic church was Arainism
so the creed was futher expanded to accentuate the divinity of Christ. (Again the proper catholic definition.)
Cristainity was divided into 3 groups catholic, arian, and church of the martyr’s who we absorped by the Arian’s.
Based on this important but narrow definition of catholic
many( not all) of the people who call themselves Christain are catholic. This is why they remain our brothers even though they are seperated.
PS
Decended into hell is an English mistranslation of the Latin.
more correct would be Limbo


#15

So the apostle’s creed was said by the Catholic and Orthodox churches BEFORE the Deformation…I meant Reformation, right? Therefore, the C in Catholic was captialized!So whenever I see the Creed and notice some lowercase letters or change of words, we know that that’s wrong, correct?


#16

[quote=Paris Blues]So the apostle’s creed was said by the Catholic and Orthodox churches BEFORE the Deformation…I meant Reformation, right? Therefore, the C in Catholic was captialized!So whenever I see the Creed and notice some lowercase letters or change of words, we know that that’s wrong, correct?
[/quote]

Correct in every sense.


#17

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