Bishop Brown/Diocese of Orange ignores parishioners plea to retain the Latin Mass

The Catholic Church’s great divide

**[font=Arial]By STEVEN GREENHUT **

Even readers without a trace of interest in Roman Catholic liturgical and theological debates might want to follow an ongoing controversy in the Diocese of Orange surrounding the future of the Tridentine Mass. The issues at the center of this debate are issues that shed light on the ongoing sex-abuse scandal, the roots of which still confuse some observers today.

To traditional Roman Catholics, there are few things more pious than this mass, which is an old-style Latin Mass known for its deep meaning and great beauty. This is the real deal, complete with vestments, incense and Gregorian Chant. It’s more pious than the modern mass and the polar opposite of - this really happened in Orange County - a mass given by a dancing priest wearing a black leotard.

Now that a veteran priest at a traditional Huntington Beach parish has retired, the diocese is stamping out the Tridentine Mass at that location, forcing devotees to drive to the overcrowded Mission San Juan Capistrano, where it is still officially sanctioned.

Basically, the forces of liberalism that are crushing traditional Roman Catholic piety are the same forces that unleashed the sex-abuse scandal within the church. As long as the leadership rejects traditional ideals of holiness and piety, nothing will be done to assure that holy men, and not those with lax sexual attitudes, dominate the priesthood.

Locally, Fr. Daniel Johnson, the kindly, traditionalist priest who led St. Mary’s by the Sea for 25 years, has retired. His retirement, and the retirement of the Tridentine Mass with him, is heartbreaking news to St. Mary’s parishioners.

It’s a mean-spirited act for the bishop to deny the parishioners the mass they love so much. The diocese says permission for the mass was granted for the priest only, and it retires with him. But the diocese could, if it wanted to, pass the permission on to someone else.

www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=95093

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Please tell us who your bishop is and what diocese he is bishop of and why you voted the way you did?

Why did I vote the way I did?

The article says it all.

The article says it all. In the almost 40 years following the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II), this attitude from one of our bishops should come as no surprise to anyone.

We all know that the Church founded by Christ Himself can never die, but we are now a mere shell of what we were prior to 1965. The “Spring time of the Church?” Right. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn you may want to buy.

I just say my bishop - Archbishop Beltran (Oklahoma City, OK) not only allows the Tridentine mass but he was was featured in the current issue of FRATERNITAS SACERDOTALIS SANCTI PETRI (“Archbishop Beltran Confirms Nine”), a newsletter published by the Traditional FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter). His excellency came to our Traditional chapel for confirmation and attended the Tridentine mass as well as having dinner with our FSSP priest.

Furthermore, shortly before the U.S election, his excellency printed the full text of Archbishop Burke’s Pastoral Letter regarding Pro-Abortion politicians in the Sooner Catholic, our diocesan newspaper if I recall correctly. I have no complaints and hope God continues to bless His Excellency Beltran.

Are they afraid of something? Or is it a big hassle for them? I’d like to request at least a little Latin and sacramental music at our church (as opposed to Haugan and Haas), but I already fear being labeled a fogey or neanderthal. And I wonder if the pastors remember all that.

Is resistance to the old mass part and parcel of some other agenda?

quote from article:

“The old mass, in particular, emphasizes the real presentation at Calvary,” he said. "The pope said we have to get back to the idea of sacrifice rather than a fraternal banquet."
One never hears diocese officials talk that way. They use the language of political correctness and ecumenism. I recall the photograph I was sent by one local Catholic of Bishop Tod Brown yanking (he says gently pulling) a middle-aged woman up by her arm, as the woman tried to receive communion from him while she was kneeling. The bishop has a firm policy against kneeling before communion.

Last summer, the bishop insisted that two priests credibly accused of downloading child pornography on their computer were not in violation of the diocese’s zero-tolerance policy on sexual abuse. That’s why the person who sent me the photograph penciled in a caption: “Bishop Brown: light-handed on child porn - but heavy-handed on kneeling for communion!!”

That’s a strange disconnect: apparent laxity toward misbehavior, yet intolerance toward attempts at holiness. It’s typical. When Mel Gibson’s “The Passion” was released, traditional Catholics were ecstatic. But the Diocese of Orange spokesman called the movie tedious and offered this snide review in the newspaper: “If you are of the bent that feels that graphic suffering makes you feel the terrible sinner that you are and Jesus is saving you, then this is going to be a very big plus in your favor when you see the movie.”

This article is just more proof of where are bishop stands.

Your title is a little misleading. I opened this thread curious what poll question there might be about the Bishop of Orange. Perhaps it would have been better to have a thread polling people on the ideological orientation of their bishops, and a separate thread discussing the particular event in the Diocese of Orange.

I really don’t know enough about Bishop Brown to comment on him. I do think that many do not realize that many of our younger priests could not say a Tridentine Mass if their life depended on it. Their Latin is sketchy if not unexistent and they have not been trained in the proper rubrics for that Mass. It would be like the early middle ages when many priests on the parish level read the Mass in Latin and had little idea of what they were saying. I have no objection to the TLM for those who find it uplifting and positive, but I believe that you can’t put the “Genie back in the bottle” or pestilence back in “Pandora’s Box.” I also hardly think that the Mass of Paul VI is not a sacrifice. The Church has restored the Liturgy of the Word in whuch Christ is also truly present and has made a more balanced view point of the Mass as both a sacrifice and a sacred meal. Just because there are folks who chose to emphasize one or the other aspect does not make it solely a sacrifice or solely a real meal.

[quote=rwoehmke]I really don’t know enough about Bishop Brown to comment on him. I do think that many do not realize that many of our younger priests could not say a Tridentine Mass if their life depended on it. Their Latin is sketchy if not unexistent and they have not been trained in the proper rubrics for that Mass. It would be like the early middle ages when many priests on the parish level read the Mass in Latin and had little idea of what they were saying. I have no objection to the TLM for those who find it uplifting and positive, but I believe that you can’t put the “Genie back in the bottle” or pestilence back in “Pandora’s Box.” I also hardly think that the Mass of Paul VI is not a sacrifice. The Church has restored the Liturgy of the Word in whuch Christ is also truly present and has made a more balanced view point of the Mass as both a sacrifice and a sacred meal. Just because there are folks who chose to emphasize one or the other aspect does not make it solely a sacrifice or solely a real meal.
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quote from Los Angeles Lay Catholic Mission
losangelesmission.com/ed/articles/2004/0406rk.htm
"Yet, not only priests feel ill used by Bishop Brown. Traditional Catholic laity at St. Mary’s by the Sea in Huntington Beach face the imminent repression of the Tridentine Latin Mass. In April it was announced that retiring Father Daniel Johnson, the pastor at St. Mary’s for the last 20 years, would be replaced by a “pro-temp” pastor, Father Sy Nguyen. A source close to the parish told me that Nguyen has told Father Johnson that the diocese’s ultimate plan is to end the Tridentine Latin Mass. “There is really no good reason to eliminate the Tridentine there,” said the source. "A Norbertine has volunteered to celebrate the Tridentine Mass there indefinitely, so it isn’t for want of a qualified priest. Many in the parish are very saddened by the impending loss of the Tridentine Mass, and they are looking for ways to save it without ruffling feathers and ruining their hope." Sunday, May 9 was the last time the Tridentine rite was celebrated at St. Mary’s. Henceforth, it will be replaced by the Novus Ordo, in Latin."

Was St. Mary’s behind in it’s bills? Not enough parishioners? Maybe not enough money going towards the PSA?:rolleyes:

[quote=Marialis Cultus]Was St. Mary’s behind in it’s bills? Not enough parishioners? Maybe not enough money going towards the PSA?:rolleyes:
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This I do not know this. It is a very small church money may have played a small part in the bishop’s decision. ** It does seem that churches in our diocese that bring in the most money have more advantages.**

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